SPEAKER_01 0:00

Imagine you've built your whole life around being on set, carrying lights up flights of stairs, assisting legendary photographers, flying out for big shoots at a moment's notice, and then one phone call and one pregnancy test later, it all stops. In this episode, beauty and fashion photographer Harriet McSween talks openly about being at home with a newborn, the frustration of having no creative headspace, and the unexpected ways motherhood has made her more focused and, in her words, more creative than I've ever been. Welcome to Mothers of Creativity. This show is dedicated to celebrating the mothers who continue to create, build and inspire while raising the next generation. I'm Sabrina Starl, and through my work as an agent and producer, I've helped build and launch creative careers. And as a new mum myself, this podcast exists to ask: what happens to your creativity when you become a mother? What happens to your career? How do you even juggle both? Honestly, what really does happen when you throw motherhood into the mix? Fashion photographer Harriet McSween. I've been following and supporting her work for years. I've loved watching her style evolve and grow with confidence, personality. Her impressive client list includes Chanel, Space and Kay, Charlotte Tilbury, French Vogue, British Vogue, Star Magazine, and Harrods. And I'm thrilled to be talking to her today and finding out what her career path has looked like and how it's evolved, how she's adapted, where she's found her inspiration from whilst entering motherhood and beyond. She has two young boys and lives in East London with her husband. Harriet, welcome to Mothers of Creativity.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Hi, Sabrina. Wow, thank you. That's lovely. And it's such a joy to join you today. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

So we first met on set for an Annie Liebowitz Vanity Fair shoot. I was part of the production team and you were in the photo team. We were at Spring Studios in London. Where tell me about your career and where you were at that point.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Wow, yeah, okay, casting my mind back. Um so it was at Spring Studios. I believe at that point I'd left, but I I started my career started there working, painting coves, you know, working alongside all the photo teams just to basically bring them glorified cleaner, actually, and waitress to be honest, and then bringing lighting equipment every now and then. Um, so I'd done that for a while. I think I'd sort of proved myself to be useful enough to then get um the opportunity to go and work freelance with some of the photographers that came into the studio. So I think, yeah, on that particular shoot, I'd probably been sort of subbed in by spring. Um, and I think when I started working and assisting with those kinds of photographers, uh, Solvey Sunsbury was another one at that time, it was so eye-opening to me. It all kind of landed into place. I was like, right, this is it, this is what I want to do. I think up until then I just hadn't totally got it. But I think once you're on set and you kind of feel that excitement, and um yeah, you just you want to be part of it, and that yeah, it all fell into place. So I started freelance assisting, and it took a while, I think, because being female, if um things we're talking about motherhood and all that encompasses it, um being female at that time in London, I don't think there were a huge amount of female photo assistants. It was quite a niche kind of place to be. I feel like I had to prove myself over and over. Um I wanted to prove myself physically, I think, as well as kind of just being emotionally quite strong and being available and being able to lift basically two double wind-ups at the same time up three flights of stairs. I think that probably got me the job. So yeah, I think that was just a very competitive time in terms of just being the best assistant that I could be, and that's what I was doing then.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

And I'd love to know what other photographers, you mentioned Solvay Sun'sbow, what other photographers were you assisting at that time?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

At that time, I think David Bailey, Martin Marcus. Um definitely Solvay Sunsbow. A bit later I worked with Tim Walker, but that was then a long good term thing. And also Jacob Sutton with Solvay, actually, that worked brilliantly. I managed to work with him interning. So he was really my first photographer that I really learned, I think, how to behave on set the process I got to intern and be in the studio with him and the office and see the sort of what happens in the background as well as just being on set. Um, I absolutely adored working with Solvay, it was so professional, it was so creative, and it just felt so calm. And I think in those moments, so much creativity can happen actually when you're that organized, and um it was just it that was a great time. I think also there was a bit of Miles Aldridge uh 2 a.m. kind of days going on as well, which I didn't quite like so much, but yeah, there was a whole host, it was fun days, I would say, because it I think the industry was having a real moment, and Spring Studios particularly was like it was like the five-star hotel of studios. So all the best shoots, all the big clients, all the money jobs were kind of happening at spring. So, you know, you'd see Carly Minogue walking around and Kate Moss and everyone else that was coming in, it was pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Amazing. That sounds incredible to have been working amongst all of those names in the fashion world and beauty world. And so you were assisting, and um you then left assisting, then what how how did that happen?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

So because assisting took a little while to find the right people to just assist more full-time, um, I guess I did that a little bit longer than I would have anticipated, because then I started traveling and it started being amazing. But when that happens, your life sort of goes on hold. So it was very hard. I always knew I wanted to do my own photo shoots, but it was actually very hard to do that whilst assisting, so um, whilst you were so busy assisting, and so I knew I had to stop in order to follow my own career path. Um and at the time, I think I'd recently got married. My husband's a little bit older, he was very keen to have children. I was, it's always been something I've wanted to do. I haven't really questioned it. Um that was just I knew a plan that I would love to try and follow. So we kind of spoke about it, and you know, I'd heard about it taking a while, and we tried and got pregnant very quickly. So I was actually still assisting, and I think I had a producer call to say, Can you do this job? It's in um it's in the quarries in Italy. And I was like, Um, I I'm not sure I can actually. I think being pregnant might stop me doing that. She was like, Yes, absolutely. That is the end of that. So I think I managed to digy a little bit for a while and keep that going, but ultimately it was pretty hard, it was a bit of a full stop. I had to just come away from it and go into kind of parent life and motherhood.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

What were your priorities? I guess before in your career before having kids, and then once that you'd put that full stop in, what became your priorities?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

I think my priority, I think I was very present at the time in doing the very best job I could. I loved lighting. I was I've always been very technical. I wanted to learn everything about everything. I wanted to be a first assistant, I wanted to be, you know, kind of really involved, running the show as much as I could. So for me, it was just about absorbing all of that information and just being the best assistant I could. And in the back of my mind, it was this niggle. I know I need to start shooting, I know I need to start shooting, but it just never quite became the priority because you're so busy doing all the other things. So I think them being pregnant and it being quite an abrupt, you know, adjustment. I think after that, then the priority was like I just need to keep a foot in the door. So once I'd had my first child, I was actually retouching a little bit anyway. But I basically taught myself to do that, and then I managed to retouch for quite a few years, and that kind of kept me in the world, you know, so I didn't just lose it completely. I think once I had the little one, I just started then to think I need to be creative, I need that, you know, moment back onset.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Yeah, you still you still had that itch, that creative itch to scratch.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah, I really did.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Um, and um how long did you not work for with your first my first job?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

He was about six weeks old. I remember retouching with a little one over my lap, and that was kind of amazing because I think I was like, wow, this is all gonna be this smooth. I can just get back to work and that's that's you know, that's gonna work brilliantly. I can do this and have the child here. I think that became unrealistic when the baby needed more, you know, once they started needing more engagement and attention, then I think I was off maybe 10 months, something like that. I probably took on the odd project where I could, retouching more than anything, but I don't think I started shooting until at least a year later. Um and I think that was just I just had to physically and mentally get myself into a headspace where even I would give myself permission to do that.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

And tell me tell me more about this headspace and giving yourself permission. What did that look like?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

I think as I say, I'm quite a present person when I'm doing something, I'm doing that thing. So I think I was in baby mode, and I felt very much like that's what I needed to be doing in that in that time. Um my eldest has food allergies, so there was some complications, and taking more time around just really controlling that situation, figuring out his food allergies, going to hospitals, things like that that just take up emotionally as well, more of your headspace that you probably wouldn't have imagined. Um, I also feel there was a lot of frustration because if you are a creative person and you're not being creative, that feels really disheartening. Yeah, and it's just sort of not resentment. I don't think I ever felt resentment because I always knew it was my choice. I I feel very fortunate to have been able to have him. Um but there was frustration that I just couldn't find the headspace more than the physical space to go and produce a shoot that I would be proud of. And I think that probably took a few years actually.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Um and I guess that is motherhood forcing you to re-evaluate perhaps your expectations that you had before having a child and after having a child. I um I joke with a friend of mine about all of the plans that expectant mothers have that they're going to do before that they're gonna do on Mat Leave and the real realities. I mean, even myself, I was like, well, when I'm on Mat Leave, I'm gonna teach myself how to edit films and um do yeah, learn Spanish and like maybe just a bit of Japanese, and the reality is so so different, but I also live for those um pre-baby expectations. So yeah, tell me about that motherhood, I guess, forcing you to re-evaluate your career path.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

I I guess to some degree I was open to it and grateful, in the sense that, as I said, I knew I had to stop assisting, and I loved assisting. I'm gonna tell you, it was the camaraderie, the joy that you get working towards, you know, with a team of people, and we were working at real like top-tier level. So the things that I was exposed to, all of that, it was hard to walk away from it. So I knew I had to, though, as I say, to forge my own path. So I was open to it. Um, but the reality of going from that and traveling around the world, and it's so exciting here, there, and everywhere, to being stuck at home with a baby, the monotony, the kind of brain fog, the lack of creativity, yeah, it was pretty brutal. But also, because of that, the expectation was like, even if I can just do this one thing, I'll be so pleased. Um, and you if you can just find those moments. And honestly, I think it started off first like, oh, if I could just go for a run, that would just clear my head, that would just give me a moment to think about something else, or myself, even. And then that probably developed more into okay, and Instagram was a thing, so you know, it could be like looking up and connecting with people on Instagram, and actually, it was probably about two years in that I connected with my great friend and collaborator Anna Payne. Um, we met over Instagram and we went for a coffee, and it was just the moment of clarity that I needed to kind of come on, let's just do this, let's just, you know, we'll just do a shoot. And we just did it in my house, and I still love those pictures actually, and and they are like my work is now. Um, and when they happened, I was like, I have to do this. This is yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Amazing, amazing. So you really got that spark from that connection, and you said it had been a couple of years, so it's then you're kind of feeling ready to get back out again. So, so tell me about this, like where where are you with your career? You've done your done your shoot with Anna Payne. What's next?

SPEAKER_00 16:39

I think I'd done that and felt, you know, great, I've done this now. All the jobs are gonna come flooding in, and that's brilliant. Okay, and um, yeah, it's just not quite like that, you know. You have to maintain that, you have to develop it. So I think I was yeah, pushing to do more. I was definitely getting like small opportunities here and there. Um, but in the back of my mind, I knew I wanted a second child, and that is a tricky one to manage mentally, and you're in limbo. You want to forge ahead with this career, you've got the feeling of like I can do this, I've got a way forwards, but then there's also this like hormonal kind of voice in the back of your head going, Well, if you're gonna have another child, you best get on with it, and um that one. So I yeah, I basically got pregnant again, and that coincided with COVID. So interesting time, in fact, I would say having a baby in COVID was actually more relaxing for me personally because everyone stopped, the world stopped. My brain could like go, we're not having to compete right in this moment. We can just take a minute. Um I'd obviously be I'm very aware that COVID was a very difficult time for a lot of people, and on some degree, you know, some parts of it were, but I think for me in terms of work, it was actually a bit of headspace to yeah, just decompress and be with the family.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

It's amazing what happens when we actually just pause and stop, and actually that's when the good ideas come, that's when we're not putting pressure on ourselves. Um, we have got yeah, space to breathe, space to reflect, and not in a hurry, can take things at our own pace, um, not putting the pressure on ourselves. So it's um yeah, uh a blessing. And that as you said, it was definitely a tricky time for everyone, and we all have our own lived-in experiences of COVID, but um really pleased to hear that for you with second pregnancy, that was a real, a real joy.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah, I mean, it was really, it just took that pressure off, as you say, and I think you know, again, very grateful, a good second birth and child. Um, so I was sort of relieved as well to just go, okay, that bit's done now, that part of my life is done, and you know, that felt like a celebration as well. Okay, we had COVID, baby was a year older, I could move on.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Okay, and so how did you move on? We're coming out of lockdown. Where are you with your career?

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Good question. Um, I think that frustration was building. I have a very good friend, Emma Delzell Kahn. She had got a studio in Hackney Downs and had space, and she said, Look, mate, just come sit at the desk, don't you have to pay me. You know, if it works, then stay. If it doesn't, leave. Just if you've got time, just come and just be away from home, have some headspace, get your ideas down. Um, and yeah, what are we four years later, and I'm still here. So that I think was the thing that kind of brought me back in, and I think that's what you need. You need friends around you, you need you real need like cheerleaders and supporters, people that just can understand what you're going through, or having time off doesn't mean that you're done, doesn't mean that that career's over. It's just finding a new rhythm and way to work.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah, and and so what was your new rhythm? When when did you start shooting again? How did things pick up and take off?

SPEAKER_00 21:00

I'd say for the first year it was very much me just turning up to the office um as much as I possibly could. That was probably part-time initially, you know, three days a week or four days but half days here and there. Um but just putting that time in. I think about a year later, you and I had been talking actually and giving some ideas and connects. And um I think it was about that time I started doing bits for Grazia Um Stylist magazine. There were a few jobs like that, and that just really gave me that hope and momentum that I needed to push forwards. Um so gosh, it's hard now to think it's all a bit of a blur. Um I would say about a year after that I started doing things for Tem Magazine. And actually that was just such a joy because that was a co personal project that I took along to a meeting. I met with Sophia and I absolutely love meeting Sophia if you ever get a chance. And can you tell me who is Sophia? Sophia is the editor-in-chief of Tem Magazine, and she's just a full joy person to meet. She was also mother. And I think she could just see. She could see me, she could see the work that I was producing. She felt I think I deserved a bit of a chance. She particularly liked this shoot and asked if it had been printed and it hadn't. So I think they were going to print like I don't know, four days later, and I got the pictures to her and they squeezed it in the magazine. And I think that when I saw that shoot in the magazine called Earthly Rainbows with Anna Payne, which was a Chanel Beauty story. I think when I saw that I felt really proud. That was the first time I think that I felt something had landed. It was a real personal achievement, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Such an incredible achievement to have taken a personal project unpublished to a meeting, and then for a magazine to say, you know what, we love this, we want to print it, and we want to have, we want to fly the flag for your work in our magazine. It's like that just does not happen every single day. So that was just such a testament to your work and to the work that you do with Anna as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah, I think it is testament to personal projects, and you know, that's something that I don't think assisting I understood so much. There was always like editorial opportunities for the photographers that I were working for, and they would sort of have a personal project running in the background, but I don't think that I really understood the power of those. I think I now do, you know, that's really where we find our authentic vision, that's where we find what's really honestly ours because there isn't anybody else saying or you know, having their input. So when a magazine says that's good enough, you know, we want we want that, we want to print it. Um that feels yeah, like a huge achievement.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Amazing. So you are starting to get published in magazines. Um, how are you juggling the world of motherhood in your career at this point?

SPEAKER_00 24:55

I think at this point the children are in nursery. I am so so lucky. I have my mother and I have my mother-in-law, and they both live pretty close by, and they are able to help. So I have yeah, I'm very fortunate. My husband is also able to work from home sometimes, you know, there's flexibility, I guess. And then we had the assurance of nursery as well. Um, when I fell pregnant, my husband was also starting his business, and um he was like, Look, focus on me now, and then when it's your turn, when we've had the babies, I'll I'll help focus on you. And that has remained true, he's remained true to his word. So he's always been extremely supportive, and that's a hard ask in this creative industry where there are no there's there's no uh direct answers, you can't climb a ladder, it's not you know, there's there's no assurances that you're going to succeed, you just have to keep on ploughing on. Um so I think with the children at nursery, yeah, family around, I was actually able to quite consistently then be in the studio, obviously still got to do drop-offs and pickups, and so pre-work and after work is pretty hectic, still is. Um, but there's something in your mind you learn to just separate them, and I don't know that I could have done that before. That's that was a good lesson to learn actually.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

What lessons have you learned then from about yourself and about your career actually since having children?

SPEAKER_00 26:56

That's a big one, and I think I have thought about this, and I think it's you're not in control of everything. I think that would be the overriding learn lesson from having children. I think the minute they arrive, you realize you cannot control everything in your world, and it's accepting that. A friend called it the surrender years, and I think there's so much to be learned in you know, just yeah, surrendering yourself. This is the moment I'm in, I'm gonna do my best, and that's enough. Um, and it's hard to accept that sometimes at the time, but it's so crucial because it it's sort of like you put all these drips of paint into a pot, and slowly one day that pot does fill up, but you can't see it at the time, and I still sometimes have to reflect on that and think, oh, this pot is not filling up, but that pot filled up, and I'm onto a new I'm onto the new pot, you know. It's sort of um patience, I guess, is the other one, you know, learning to be patient, um and just taking a breath, being calm. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

That's almost feels very parallel to what you went through in the second pregnancy during COVID, right? And your learnings there about being still. Um, and so going back to your career, you had that first 10 magazine publication, and then I know you've also worked with British Vogue. So, how did that come about? That's that must be a pretty major career highlight.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

That really is, and yeah, I feel very proud of that moment as well. Um, I connected with Jamie Spence, he actually lives locally, although that wasn't exactly the connect. Um, but I think I'd emailed him quite a few times, and just yeah, in those lessons of being patient, calm, not giving up, you know, I kind of kept going, kept emailing, and I think he'd agreed to meet. And again, as these things take time, that was sort of put off, and you know, as these things are, and then I think one morning I just kind of woke up with right, I'm just gonna message, and I did, and I was like, Are you around today? He was like, Yeah, actually, I've got an hour, I'll meet you. So we met in the morning, had a coffee. I showed him my portfolio, and um yeah, he didn't give a lot away, but he had such brilliant advice. I really just took on board everything he said. I was really quite nervous to meet him. Um, I just wanted to absorb whatever kind of insights he might have in terms of working with magazines such as British Folk, you know, you never go into these things expecting anything. After the after our conversation, he emailed me back about syndicating some images that I'd already shot, and that just blew my mind. I was like, this is incredible! Oh my gosh, I'm gonna have a picture in British folk. So that was amazing. It was a close-up red eye that I'm I've always been very proud of. Um, and then about a week later, he got back to ask if I would, or he'd showed my work to Jess Dinah and would I work on the skincare special with them. And it was shooting, I don't know, about a month later. So there wasn't a lot of time to think about it. And of course, I was like, yes, absolutely. Um, and that was just that was brilliant. I went in and I think because of all these personal projects, because I'd done a few of these commissions for things like Grazia, and you know, I understood it is a job, you're not going in, you're not going in there to plaster your favourite pictures and your project your complete world onto everyone. But I think you can they you can give an element of you and they take a bit and add a bit, and you know, that was just a brilliant experience.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

So yeah. And what a great story of just resilience, never giving up, just keep emailing, keep hounding, and you know, it does happen because you believed in your work, your work was good enough, and it just took the right message at the right time to then have the right meeting and to then see the chain reaction that then follows from that. Would you say those lessons of resilience and persistence were are also similar to that in motherhood?

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Absolutely. I think you have to be so resilient as a mother. I think so much of parenting, the emotion of it, the early days if you're breastfeeding, you know, it just does naturally fall onto the mother. You have to just keep going. You know, you've had four broken hours of sleep, doesn't matter. You just have to get up and do that day again, and there's sort of no catching up on those lack of sleep nights. There's no, you know, so you just persevere, but what you get out is a child that then starts to smile and they start giving back. So I think probably that is just yeah, it was a great lesson to have learned. Um, and I have to say, I also feel assisting photographers on these like big shoots really set me up for motherhood as well, of like working really hard, lack of sleep, persevering, keep a smile on your face. You know, there's a lot to be said for this career and parenting. Um I think there are some parallels, and yeah, I do think resilience, perseverance. I think it's anything in life. Look, if you've had a tough time doing anything and you get out of it the other side, you've learned just so much. Um I've often also thought about it. I think you may have actually told me this once about this is a marathon, not a sprint.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

One of my favourite phrases. Yes, it's definitely a marathon and not a sprint. You are gonna be hopefully in this career for years and decades.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

I think so. And you know, and that even got me through parenting because I would think, yeah, this isn't a sprint. I don't need to be the very best parent ever that I can be today because I have to be a great parent all the time. You know, it's like yeah, you want their momentum actually in those times of like perseverance, maybe you are going a bit slower, but you're also looking at other things to connect dots. So there's reflection, there's there's a lot happening in those moments as well when things are sort of on pause. There's also a lot of hope, you know, and it's sort of like if if it's okay if it takes longer because it sort of keeps it alive, you know, even if even if it's uh doesn't happen straight away, you're sort of still you're still aiming for it. So yeah, things that come quickly aren't always valued so much, you know, personally.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah, no, I I definitely agree. It's um yeah, things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day. I'd still love to know how long it took to build Rome exactly, but um that's what they say, Rome's not built in a day. So what was the biggest shift you had to make practically or emotionally in how you worked?

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yeah, there was a big shift. Um, I'd say pre-children, I was so emotionally attached to any work that I did. Like I couldn't edit it, I couldn't, it was it was just all painful. I would either all love it all or hate it all, and however I was judged on one of those pictures would be you know the end of the world or the opposite. Um, so there was definitely a conversation actually with my husband. If you're going back into this industry, if you're going to be a photographer, you have to be less emotional. And I think that actually really helped because I think I decided to approach it more professionally. I think it helped me just make decisions quicker. Um, I think also just having deadlines on yourself to make decisions or hand a job in and move on and not dwell on it. I think because when you go home and you've got children there, you don't actually have time to really panic about it. You know, it's sort of those bits that I'm happy to let go of because it would be the unnecessary panicking. You've handed it in, everyone's happy, everyone's told you they're happy, and yet you're going, Did I do a good job? Did I do a good job? And I try and just do that less. Um, so yes, I think also just knowing that you have a limited amount of time, it just pushes you to make those decisions or to act quicker. So if I've got a to-do list, rather than spend two days feeling really awkward about emailing people, just get on with it, you know, and you never get through your whole to-do list, and that's the problem these days, that it just drags on to the next day. But um, at least it gets done. I think it actually gets done.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Two points to bring up based on that. And the first is being less emotional, which is um traditionally perceived as a feminine quality, and being a mother is obviously the most well, one of the most feminine things, and therefore to have gone through that transformation of becoming a mother and harnessing all those kind of internal maternal feelings and then switching it off and being less emotional is almost causes a bit of an inner conflict, perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

I think so, but it's also putting different hats on and it's learning to separate the two. And I think pre-children, you know, in a way, I was more childlike in my thinking, and I was younger, right? So it's two things there, but sort of an immaturity, but also just not having to put myself aside to follow through on the actions that actually just need to be done. So, regardless of what you know my emotions are feeling, I can still just go and get a job done. And I think I feel happy, I think that's a really good place to be. You know, sometimes you can just feel really like scared. How's that first shot gonna go? But you just put your hat on, you just go and get on with it, and I think I've had good outcomes from doing that, so it's a positive thing, you know. I would say also on the flip side, and I don't think this is emotion, but your instinct I think is clearer because it's not sort of muddled with emotion, it's just that gut instinct, and I think you really harness that as a mother, you really get a feel for when something is right or wrong, and I think that follows through with your creative work. If you're trying to be that authentic person and be yourself, you really have to be honest to yourself and to your gut instinct, you know, that's really who you're replying to when you're doing your personal projects, and um I think it really harnesses all of that.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Yeah, I think that's it's so true, that's so lovely. And also in terms of having been limited with time, there's always that thing where it's like if like give a busy person tasks to do, right? Because if you've got 12 hours to do one task, you're gonna use all of those 12 hours.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Whereas it would be amazing to have 12 hours to I used to couldn't tell you what else I did on that particular day, but yeah, no, absolutely. Um, yeah, if you want something done, ask a busy person, and it couldn't be true, you know. And there are days where I am not on full capacity, go, go, go. Could not tell you what I do on those days, not very much, and that's good, you know. You need a little bit of time to switch off, but I think when you're really focused, and I do think having limited time really puts you know, the blinkers on, you just get through your to-do list, and um I think the time where I like to give myself time, or where I really carve out time is when I'm on set. That is like you are put into a bubble to say, you know, this is the moment, you have to be so organized to get that moment, and it is the same with children, you have to be so organized if you want to leave the house that day and have a good day. You have to have all the snacks, you have to have the clothes, the backup plan, the you know, wet weather gear. And if you have all that stuff, you have a really good day. But if you just go out on a whim, it could be good, but it might not be, you know. Um, so I think preparation, yeah, lack of time just gives you a real focus.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Yeah, everyone works really well to a deadline, don't they? Yeah, definitely. So let's go back to your career. So you've been shooting for British Vogue, and then how did your career evolve from there?

SPEAKER_00 41:16

I mean, I think I'm still in that moment now. I think um it has evolved in the sense that it's given me more confidence. There were some great options that came through from clients like dream clients that I would love to work with. Um, that was you know earlier this year. So I think I'm still in that growing moment, and I but I think from doing British Vogue, acknowledging what it was that worked or what got me that shoot, which I think, as I said before, was a personal shoot. Um I think it's realising what I can achieve on my own, you know, continuing to do these personal shoots as well as trying to get commissions in order to get me to the next step. Because I probably could have put the brakes on and thought, oh yeah, this is good, I'll I I'll stay here. But I think the world constantly moves, you have to keep moving with it. Also, being a creative that's what drives you anyway. So I think developing from that, obviously, you just want to do it again. So it's like, how do I get to do that again? Um, and I think it's more it's more hard work, you don't you don't get to just do those things time and time again without putting in you know the work behind the scenes. So there's been other commissions and um recently had a cover for Stoll magazine with Wonderful Alva Claire.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Yeah, tell me tell me about this. This was uh an amazing cover story. I thought it was so beautiful in terms of it, it wasn't just your typical beauty shoot um with the the lips on the tissue. I thought that was just so clever, especially in a world where you know beauty imagery can be so recycled. Um, how did how did this come about?

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Oh thank you, I appreciate that. So, okay, you asking this question makes me reflect on how I work now, and I think research is a big part of it. I think directing and realizing okay, you want a picture, you might want a texture, you might want a colour, but it's also really interesting to have an action. Or, you know, and and maybe this is what I'm the kind of world I'm in now is really thinking about how do these pictures. just come alive you know how do you you've got your world you've got sort of the colours and the models you like to shoot and things like that but how how do they really come to life or and yeah I think it's just trying to show some authenticity to to put across an idea as much as maybe the lipstick you're selling you know just so people engage with it is something you might want to take a bit more time over. Um I think we see a lot of imagery we really do and obviously the really kind of graphic high impact shots are great but I think sometimes to have a bit of narrative as well is really exciting. So I think in the last year that's definitely something that I've been focusing on and just trying to yeah bring in a bit more narrative into what could be otherwise quite clinical.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

That's a really lovely point and that probably you know is your unique selling point as a photographer is your strength is building that narrative how does one build a narrative into a stills image it's it's such an interesting concept.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

It's a good question and actually maybe you know earlier this year as well I've started to try and work a bit more on film and directing I'm very early days but I did do something for Vogue Grease and which I feel really proud of and actually on this style magazine they did a moving image cover as well as a still cover. So I think when you start thinking about an action how am I going to direct this person to do something for moving image you can then circle back round to your stills and be like ah that would actually be a really good still like you might want the moment rather than the end product so I think that narrative is probably yet coming from a place of thinking more about movement.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

I love how you're thinking about that.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

So we spoke about um you know before children your career you're assisting top tier you're flying around the world but now it feels like it's at an equally exciting point where you're exploring directing moving image learning new skills getting covers of magazines shooting top models how would you describe your career now compared to before motherhood wow I mean I think you just described it really well I haven't really thought about it like that um sounds quite good I think I am currently I think I'm in my like real hard work bit I think I'm really in that graft I think at the end of my assisting career sort of reaping I think I'd done the real hard graft in the last few years of assisting I was just living a really good life like you really learnt that job but they often say you know once you've learned the job it's time to move on and I think I'm really in that part of learning and pushing and maybe as a photographer that doesn't stop. I don't know maybe that bit you know as an assistant felt like it needed to for me but as a photographer maybe it doesn't and it's more cyclical or something um but I feel now as the photographer you can manage your diary a bit more you can say yes I want to travel or no I don't or um so I think in terms of having children there's no way on earth I could have done it before as an assistant. I just would not have worked because you're waiting for someone to call and then you're on a plane two days later. As a photographer I think maybe also the photography that I often do is more studio based um there's more time to plan so I feel it's less sort of frantic it's a bit more in control I can pace it I can pick and choose to make sure things align with my vision and my diary equally you know so it's a good it's a good place to be.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

And what would your what's your superpower that you have grown gained um since becoming a mother what what superpower have you yeah what superpower have you gained and put into your career?

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Superpower is an interesting question but maybe empathy um I think empathy and multitasking are definitely two things that have developed through parenthood. But I also I also feel now more creative than I've ever been probably since being a child and I think part of that is seeing the world through their eyes how would what would I say to them? I give them permission to be creative for being creative sake all the time I encourage it. I want them to develop it and in doing that for them I think it allows me to give permission to myself you know to do those personal projects to explore to try and learn new things creatively and I don't think I had that before I think I would really worry before much more and I think you as a photographer you have to stay curious you have to give yourself that time to learn what you like learn you know what's what makes you tick how how you bring your pictures to life um so I actually think yeah having children's really encouraged me as well in that respect.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

So interesting to hear just that shift of perspective seeing things from another point of view how that can then inject and change change your view on on your creative world which it has done um so well so Harriet how can we find your work now? Yeah you can find my work on my Instagram which is my name Harriet underscore McSween and my website which is HarrietmacSween dot com amazing thank you so much for sharing your your creative world your creative career it's been super interesting to hear how motherhood you know changed and shifted your perspective but it sounds like it really shifted it well 100% for the positive and actually the career that you were doing pre babies would not have been sustainable post babies and actually it caused you to put that full stop in that section and in that chapter in that season of your career and I think that's very inspiring to anyone that could be listening who is worried about what or the what children or how children may affect their career when actually it's it really helps evolve your career it really kind of puts that shift it changed that perspective and it's all really for a positive which um you know which we are big champions and supporters of so thank you so much for being open and sharing all of that. Pleasure thank you for having me thank you thank you so much for listening to this conversation with Harriet. She is such a calm reflective all-knowing energy honestly I really look up to her as a mother and hearing about her career and the surrender years is a reminder to give yourself grace and coming back and building a creative life after having children can really lead to a more fulfilling and sustainable career path. You'll find links to Harriet's works in the show notes and please follow the podcast and leave a quick review if this episode spoke to you. It makes a huge difference and helps more mothers and creatives find these conversations. You've been listening to Mothers of Creativity I'm Sabrina Starr and it's brought to you by BlinkbidMedia