SPEAKER_01 0:09

What happens when you outgrow the very material and the identity you built your entire career around? In today's episode of Mothers of Creativity, I'm in artist Lydia Sheriff's studio. She has created work for Chanel, Selfridges, British Vogue, and the VA. And whose handmade paper Nike trainer went viral during the early days of blogging. But after over a decade of working with paper and becoming a mum during lockdown, Lydia found herself somewhere she didn't expect. Creatively stuck, burnt out from commission work, and losing herself to the anxiety and intensity of early motherhood. Lydia talked so openly about what those first few years really looked like. The rage, the isolation, the guilt of needing time to just think. And the slow realisation that she hadn't left any space for her own creativity at all. We talk about ego, about why being creative has to be a selfish act, about stepping away from Instagram, and how she's now turned her focus to working with stained glass, a material that couldn't be more different from paper. I'm Sabrina Saar. Welcome to Mothers of Creativity. Maybe let's try this. Yes, okay. I think this is gonna be looking a lot better. My sound levels are looking good. Can you just tell me about what you hold on, tell me again. You were talking about Japan. How long are you going for? Who are you going with?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

We are going for 17 days. I'm going with my mother, my husband, and my son. Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Right. Oh, also, do you want to be known as Lydia Kasumi Sheriff or Lydia Sheriff? Or do you have a pro Lydia Sheriff is fine. Lydia Sheriff, okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Keep it simple. Keep it simple.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

I've got so many names. I know, so many names. I don't even ever change my name. Uh, which is a bone of contention with Dave.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Honestly, it's such a fa.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Um, okay, let's dive straight into it. So, Lydia, I would love to know what goes through your mind when you get the call and you're asked to construct paper pieces for Millie Bobby Brown to wear.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Um, you know, it's really hard to remember that specific job because I was a year into motherhood, my head was not in the right space, and it was very last minute. It was a very last minute shoot. I was kind of on board for a week before the shoot happened, and I kind of liaised with the magazine, and then everything was kind of going smoothly, you know. We had some ideas, I did some kind of prototypes, and then uh they finally got a stylist and hair and makeup involved like the day before. So we did a test, and then everything changed. Oh, what changed? Um, the brief, the idea.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

So had you already crafted and made pieces? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Okay. Yeah. I'd made stuff and you know, I'm good at prep work. I like to be prepared. But this time, yeah, there it was supposed to be a collaboration between me and the makeup artist. But then of course, because she was a kind of late edition, we only started coming up with ideas together, like the test day before the shoot. So we uh I think we stayed till like 11 pm working on different ideas. Wow, okay. And the following day was the shoot day. The following day was the shoot day, yeah. But it was fun, you know, it was very fast-paced, and normally I kind of do enjoy that kind of challenge, but at the same time I was like, I just want to go home and go to sleep.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

And um like how do you feel your career had I don't know, it it had got you to that point. It's quite a um it's quite a moment in anyone's career actually to work with A-list celebrity and to be seen to be creating paper models, paper sculptures. How do you how do you actually describe what you create with paper actually?

SPEAKER_00 4:52

I usually say I'm a paper artist. Okay. That kind of encompasses everything as a whole. And then I will, you know, if I get a blank look in return, I'll say, well, I make displays for windows, for magazine editorials, um, in-store displays, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Advertising pieces as well. Advertising, yeah. Um, and so how like how did you get into it?

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Um without a huge amount of effort, I have to admit. Uh, I studied fine art at uni. I started well, I specialized in kind of sculptural pieces in my final year. And then after I left uni, I didn't have any money, I didn't have a big studio. I was kind of making small pieces in paper because it was the easiest thing to do, alongside kind of drawing and painting. Um, and I did a show in Bristol, my first solo show, the year after I graduated, I think. Quite soon after. Yeah, very much. I wanted to push myself. I think it was the winter after I graduated, maybe. Maybe I can't remember. Um but that was that was really good because I kind of I knew I wanted to make work for myself. I didn't know exactly where I wanted it to lead. I knew there were people doing things in paper. I'd kind of seen things in books and magazines that I was interested in. So I kind of I gave it a go. I enjoyed it because it was quite quick and immediate. I didn't have to kind of faff around with complicated materials, and there was quite a lot of freedom within kind of the constraints of making things out of paper. I could see there was a lot of potential there for future ideas. So you really just went with the flow, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Like went with the flow, went worked with what you could easily resource.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah, and it all kind of, you know, I had this funny job where I worked in a kitchen showroom um in my hometown, and I was basically left alone every Saturday in this kitchen showroom in charge of the phones. So I would sit there and I would make kind of little things out of paper, which I then displayed in this exhibition in Bristol. I then took a lot of photos, I put them online. I think I had a blog at that point. Oh my god, the era of the blog.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Blog spot.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Love that. Love, love that. And then I I'd also done a few bits of pieces with my friend Jam. I went to what did I do? I went to stay at his house, his mum's house in Newcastle, and we made like a big owl in the woods. It was all kind of about making a kind of art installation piece. That's what we wanted to do together. You know, I had photos of that, I had the photos from the exhibition, I put them online, and then me and Cam, my now husband, then boyfriend, moved to London at the same time as a lot of our friends. And those photos kind of did the rounds on Pinterest. I was contacted by an illustration agency who were looking for a paper artist. And yeah, that's it. Kind of serendipity.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Oh, I love that. I love that literally there's no plan. Let's see what happens. Because I think we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

You'll see that that's a running theme in my life.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

But you know what? I think, especially in today's day and age where we're told, like, we need to have a plan, we need to know what we're working toward, you know. Ashley, sometimes you just have to leave it up to the universe, you have to leave it up to fate, like see what happens. As long as you're making and creating, which you were, then you know, see what see what shows up. So you are so you move to London, you get picked up with an illustration agency. Do you even like know what an agent is or how that world works?

SPEAKER_00 9:07

No, no one had taught me. I studied fine art. We didn't really learn anything about that kind of side of things. No, I mean, I found it quite funny because you know, I went for a meeting, you know, at their office, and uh then, you know, they were like, okay, we'll represent you. Here's how it works, here's the contract. Um, I thought, okay, that's great. And then I've yeah, I just found it hilarious from that point on. I was like, I'm just gonna call my agent. My agent can deal with that.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Um and what what do you think you learned from your time of having an agent? Do you think they actually taught you the runnings of the industry? Or what what kind of work were they getting you?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

They were getting me good work for I think I was with them for two, maybe three years, and I learned a lot about pricing my work, usage. You know, I learned how to communicate with clients and you know what that kind of side of things was about. And I really got on with my agents, actually. There was a time for about yeah, a year and a half when I there were a couple of girls that I worked with, and we got on really well. We had a really good relationship, but then they left. I didn't get I didn't have the same thing with the next agent. It kind of turned into a situation where I was bringing in more work than they were getting me. So then I kind of I knew it was time. But yeah, no, I learned a lot, a lot about the work process. Because I knew nothing about it before.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

And can you tell me what kind of jobs were they bringing you? You said they were bringing you good jobs.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Yeah, we did we did a lot of magazine editorials, a lot of adverts. Who were the big clients? We did jobs for De Beers, McDonald's, yeah, pretty much every print magazine. Because paper was like quite a big thing. It was quite fashionable at that point. So um, yeah, it was quite easy to get magazine editorials.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Um, I feel like you do yourself a disservice as like it was easy, but obviously they were picking you because of your talent. Um I have got a list of you were featured in British Vogue, Grazia magazine. Um also got here that you uh did a first overseas job, um, a big window display in Milan for La Renacente department store. I've probably butchered the name of that. Um like what does that even mean? Like, how do you even do an overseas job? Do you like create everything and send it or create it there? Like, what does what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Overseas jobs are tricky because there's a lot of limitations on what you can send. That actually was quite straightforward because I was working with the Serpentine Museum. They were collaborating with they had a bunch of designers, they were making wallpaper together, and this whole display in the Lorena Shente, which is a big department store, like in the middle of Milan, next to the Duomo. And they were showcasing these wallpapers, and they thought a fun way to do it, get young designers to design the windows and make them there on site. Um, and it was a very open brief. They kind of gave us I think I think they gave us a choice of wallpapers. I chose a really abstract one. It had light bulbs and was it potatoes? Something like that on a blue bag.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

It was like a completely natural pairing.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

It was very um yeah, it was very abstract and quite weird. So I thought, okay, I'll just go with this theme. Um, so I made taps. Okay. I made two two enormous like taps. I think they were like a meter and a half tall, and they kind of sat, one was upside down, one was the right way up, together with like some shiny like chrome silver drips. Um but they they organized all the shipping.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Talking about doing um jobs abroad, you worked with Chanel for seven days in Paris, and you said that paid for your wedding. That sounds like an incredible job and an incredible opportunity, one of the biggest and best brands in the world. What did you what did you have to do for it?

SPEAKER_00 13:49

For that job, me, I took an assistant. We were there for seven days. We I'm trying to remember. It was Christmas, it was a Christmas shoot. It was various kind of displays of Christmas trees made of Chanel boxes, you know, Chanel boxes that opened up and had like the perfume and stuff inside. Um, I don't honestly remember it being that many shots, but I kind of feel like because they're French, I'm like, yeah, we'll do seven days, you know, and then we'll have like you know a couple of hours for lunch every day, and like it was actually really beautiful. It's a dream. Oh, that sounds good for me. Yeah. And yeah, I took my assistant Katie, and we just kind of hung out, had nice dinners. Did you feel like that was a real proud moment in your career? I was proud of it, yeah. It's quite interesting, like quite a lot of the jobs I do. Actually, that wasn't one because I was quite prepared for that one. A lot of the jobs I do, I don't feel proud of in the end because I do feel like I've had to compromise quite a lot in budget and time. Because I will I'll come up with ideas that are quite complicated. Uh either have to kind of simplify them down or find a way to uncomplicate them to make it you know within the time frame. Can you can you give me an example? Can I give you an example? I would say like most of them. I think with with making things out of paper, there's always, you know, there's always more layers you can do, there's always more detail you can add. And because of the budgets I'm given, I can't take, you know, three weeks on a job if they're just paying me for one. You know, it just doesn't make sense. Um and I do feel like quite a lot of the time I'm left with a product that I'm I'm happy with, but I can always feel like it could have been better.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Fine. Do you think that's you being hard on yourself? Yeah, definitely. So it sounds like, you know, when you're working with clients and amazing clients, by the way, that you, you know, there's always going to be constraints, as you said, like you want to spend three weeks on something, but they only want to pay you for one week. Um, so do you create personal work or like can you perhaps like uh bring your, you know, what you want to do and and and your fantasy, can you bring them to life like within personal work? Do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yes, I used to. I there I've kind of developed a complicated relationship with paper things recently because I've been doing it for a long time. Yeah. I think I started 2012. So that's 14 years. Yeah, I did I did used to get really excited about doing personal work and kind of shooting tests and kind of stretching things a little bit further, pushing myself. You know, because on jobs I'd get kind of constrained by various things. It was really nice to take the time to really put a lot of time into something. So, you know, I made that trainer, which I did over like six months.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

And um, I feel like that trainer, um, we're gonna have to put a link or an image on our socials about it, is like that went viral. Like I feel like I've seen that so many places, and that got picked up in loads and loads of spots. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yeah, that one. Um I think I tagged a few.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

It's a Nike train. I don't know what model it's supposed to. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

I'd probably have told you at one point. Cam could definitely tell you. I can't remember. Um some kind of Air Max, I think. Okay. But no, it that that was just because I wanted to push myself. Because I'd done trainers before, um, but never really put all the effort in that I could. And it's things like that. And also the the deck of cards I made that really I just wanted to kind of push myself into I don't know, the next level, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yeah. Yeah. And you kind of I think you touched and perhaps hinted on it um a moment ago when you were talking about you don't do so many personal projects because of time. I wonder whether that may be because your son came into the mix. Oh perhaps you're right. So tell me what was happening in your career when you or when you found out you were pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Well, not a lot was happening career-wise because it was COVID.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

We were right in the middle of, you know, all of that. And I'd kind work had kind of slowed down a bit, even before, because Brexit kind of affected things in a weird way. And then obviously COVID happened, everything slowed down. I still had some jobs coming in, um, but you know, they were few and far between, and we were just kind of chilling at home. I kind of thought, I had been thinking for a while, I was kind of getting a bit not over, over sounds a bit dramatic, but I was kind of getting a bit burnt out from constantly working on commission. So I had been doing more personal work and kind of, you know, trying to feel a way around this kind of problem. Like it wasn't, it was kind of like a creative blockage, you know. I couldn't feel that my kind of creative itch was getting scratched through the work I was doing because it was very kind of prescribed by the client. I didn't always have a huge amount of creative freedom, even when I did. There were reasons why, you know, I couldn't make it as impressive as I wanted it to. And it was a lot about ego as well. You know, my ego took a bit of a bruising every time the client was like, Well, you know, we've gone with someone else because their prices are lower. And I'd be like, Well, their prices are lower, but have they been doing it for over 10 years? Like, will you get the same result? No one cares. But you know what? They don't care. And I was like, I don't want to just be a paper maker, you know. I don't just want to be like the crafts person who you just call up when you need a paper artist. You know, I wanna I wanted to be, I don't know, the one they call when they want something spectacular. But like I say, that's very ego-driven.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

But I think ego drives us. Like that's such an interesting angle.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yeah, but it's also something that I've kind of learned to let go of a little bit because it was making me very frustrated and it wasn't it wasn't very good for me. Yeah, you know, because I don't feel like we should it kind of made me feel competitive and I didn't want that feeling to be part of how I work, you know. And I didn't want to be driven purely by kind of monetary value, you know. I didn't want my worth to be measured in pounds.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Yeah, that's such an art like that is a true artist right there. I don't care about the money, I just want to make something spectacular. Um, which I can totally, totally understand. So we're it it it's COVID, nothing much is happening. Yeah. You get pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yeah, so work slow down. Um, we're kind of, you know, me and Cam are in a good place. Like I say, that Chanel job, it paid for our wedding. My daughter had like a good run of years at work. So we'd bought our first flat, we were kind of you know, everything was going really well. And we always knew that we wanted to have kids. So we thought, well, you know, how about now? There's nothing else to do. Yeah, there's nothing else to do. Um kind of in the back of our minds thinking, well, you know, it could take a while, so you know, there's no time like the present. Obviously it didn't. Yeah. And then when Hero was born, we were just coming out of COVID. And literally, I think the day before I had my C-section, we went to the pub with some friends. And that was the first time we'd been allowed to go out to the pub. Like normally.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

So your pregnancy was you kind of like in isolation, right? How were you able to, I don't know, were they doing antenatal classes? Like what what was your pregnancy like?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

My pregnancy was pretty chill. Like I I was lucky. Like I didn't have any problems. Um I felt I felt pretty good. There weren't any antenatal classes on in person. They had like zoom ones which I wasn't really into. So we didn't actually bother doing any of that. Which in hindsight maybe should have done yeah no it was but it was lovely because I was I was at home with Cam. I kept my studio so I was walking about half an hour there to the studio in Dalston, half an hour back. So I was getting exercise walking slowly of course trying not to get a stitch trying not to get out of breath um and you know so I had my friends there who I had the studio with I had Cam. I didn't feel like you know it wasn't proper lockdown. Things were still things were still strange but I could still see people and people would come visit.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Okay. So it was just like probably quite nice to know that you need to slow your pace of life down but everyone else has got a slower pace of life anyway. So it kind of goes hand in hand.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Yeah it felt it felt kind of fine. Yeah I really I didn't have a problem with it at all. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

And you know as you said work kind of slowed down so it didn't necessarily feel like you were missing out on things or it it was just every kind of everything was kind of um in a good place. And so um you have your son and how like how long did you take off work? How, you know, did you feel the urge to like get back and get creating again? What what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

When he was born I think I kind of just embraced the slower pace of things. I don't think I really got any work in I kind of just assumed that if any work came in then I would either make it work or I would say no. I'd turn it down and not that much came in. The things that did come in I was able to do either at home or at the studio like quite easily. There there weren't any big jobs. Did you expect motherhood to affect your career? It's a good question. I'd really I've really tried to think about what I expected motherhood to do. And I think I I was completely prepared to just devote myself wholly to it at that point because that's what we're kind of that's what we're taught is the right thing to do right so I thought you know I'll have this baby work can you know take a what's the phrase?

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Take take a backseat. Take a backseat. To be like you know what it can take a backseat.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah because I think I'd kind of got used to this slower pace of working I I kind of thought, you know, this can work because Cam also was working, you know, his schedule was quite ad hoc so I knew that if I had a job come in then he could probably take time off work or he would only be working like a few days a week anyway and we could kind of my work could always be go in the in-betweens. But yeah I think I can't I definitely underestimated that I would actually still need to be creative. I didn't leave any space for that.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Because like I say the paper stuff it wasn't really fulfilling the kind of the urge to create that I always have because I was kind of because I was so used to it and because it just become my job I kind of didn't I didn't approach it with the kind of creative mindset that I would approach kind of something that was purely personal.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah. So that's really that's interesting. And then you kind of like turn your head to creating something else, creating a life.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Yeah and I kind of that was the most important thing at that time was to try and get that right and I really I wasn't even considering really my career at that point.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

So yeah as you said you were really kind of like devoting everything putting everything into motherhood and you still felt like you needed to fill up that creative cup?

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Like how like when did you come to realise that it took me quite a long time because for the first I'd say two years that I had Hero it I found it really hard. I found it really hard after he was born because he didn't feed properly and everything was stressful like just everything. I just I couldn't believe how stressful everything was my kind of postnatal experience manifested itself in anxiety and rage. So I kind of I was really trying to cope the best I could you know doing all the things I thought I should be doing but just always feeling like I wasn't getting it right you know but I feel like we you know we're it was like can we ever get it right you know? No I know and like I I know now because I've read up on it and I've kind of I have more experience that that is kind of how I don't know life society like that's how everything's kind of engineered to make us feel in a weird way like it really the kind the whole system set up for us to fail because it's so hard to do all of those things and we're not really you know humans aren't designed for this kind of one-on-one intensive parenting that we seem to expect is normal.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

And also I guess yeah in fairness you've had that like one-on-one time because it's been lockdown right and then you then go into one-on-one with looking after your son and it's you probably perhaps like felt again like a bit isolated a bit separated from from people.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yeah and but it was it was different because as soon as I had hero it was the end of lockdown everything started opening up all of our friends that didn't have kids started meeting up and you know going back to normal life whereas we kind of got left behind because we now had this tiny baby so we couldn't you know it wasn't easy for us to leave the house like I was anxious about leaving the house you know because I just felt like something was going to go wrong and it was easier it was m easier to manage and control if we just stayed at home like in a safe place where I could, you know, I knew what was going on I had like you know a schedule and there weren't any surprises. So that that was a big part of how I became so isolated.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

That sounds yeah just so so sad and just so um it's yeah it's just such a I don't know heartbreaking to hear that I think because from uh obviously I know you well as a very good friend from the outside looking in we'd have no idea I mean you also have no idea when you know you don't have children either um but yeah it's so it's so heartbreaking to hear but I also think very useful to hear about it because I think a lot of people go through and experience um similar things. So I guess like you know you were saying about the anxiety like I did you then I don't know like how do you think that then showed up in your work like what kind of got you out of that do you think?

SPEAKER_00 31:07

I just didn't manage it very well at all like it it was only until well because you're just so because when you have a small child you really just live in the moment like your brain is full of all the things that need doing now you know I mean you know I know I know and there's always so many things that you need to remember to do that take up all your brain space. So for a long long time I just didn't have there was no energy to be creative in me at all which felt really weird and I think that contributes a lot to why I just didn't feel that myself for like yeah two, three years. Yeah. And I didn't recognize that because I thought you know because I was still working I I had jobs coming in and I'd kind of fit them around Cam's work and Hero's schedule and I was still you know in theory being creative but it was it was all client led it was all kind of you know usually someone else's idea it wasn't it wasn't anything that really came from me that kind of made me feel creatively fulfilled.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

It was yeah it wasn't it wasn't doing you know what it should and you'd already said beforehand that you were feeling frustrated by doing the client and the commission work. So you know again it's probably feeling feeling stuck right feeling that like creative um block. So I guess you know motherhood perhaps has forced you to reevaluate what you want to do or you know did it then kind of kick start a pivot into something else or yeah I wouldn't really call it a pivot I'd call it a kind of very slow meandering I love I love a slow meander whatever we want to describe it as and it kind of no it's been very it's been a really gradual process.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

It kind of took me a long time to kind of wake up get rid of the like you know I just need yeah like I say I needed some brain space to really even start considering what I wanted to do. Um and it's just yeah it's just so hard to be able to look you know to plan the future when you're dealing with the minutiae of like daily life you know all the things that need doing all the things that need thinking about it kind of it it takes up your whole brain and then you're also just tired like any spare time that you have you like you don't have the energy to kind of access that creativity inside of you somehow. So it's really it's taken me until now this year when Hero started school which to me sounds insane like it's it's over four years that I've kind of felt quite stuck. And I've been I've you know I've I've been doing things to try and take myself out of it. Um two two years ago ago I did a stained glass course locally because I thought I need a challenge you know I need something to be interested in I need to push myself to be trying something new because you know I'm kind of I don't feel the same about paper as I did.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Which is interesting because at at the start of conversation you said that you chose paper because it was a challenge.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Yeah but then I think after you've done it for a long time you've kind of met those challenges you've kind of you've explored the ideas that you wanted to explore and suddenly the limitations are there which mean you can't you know the limitations that actually made it exciting in the beginning because you were pushing against them seeing how far you could kind of stretch it they then become like oh actually maybe there's no more like maybe there's no more to explore here that I find interesting. So yeah I wanted something different and I you know I love stained glass I think it's I think it's fascinating and I wanted to create something with a bit more permanence as well. That's really lovely.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Because I may I've you know I've got like over a decade's worth of paperwork but hardly anything survived most of it has just been thrown in the bin hopefully recycled um that's do you know what I I've never I'm I'm sat here in your gorgeous studio surrounded by said stained glass pieces um alongside beautiful paper pieces as well and actually you probably couldn't get a more contrasting medium as you could between paper and glass.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Yeah I think it needed to be different. I think it needed to be different enough that to generate kind of new ideas and new possibilities and it is I wanted to I wanted something that pushed me in new directions, new ways of seeing things, new ways of like figuring out how to put it all together new challenges and I kind of ticked all the boxes.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Great and was there anything like why stained glass for instance like you said you saw saw the class were you already looking for stained glass specifically or yeah you are okay yeah it had been in my mind for a while because I was you know you always kind of think well I'm I'm not sure I'm gonna be doing this forever what could I be doing instead and I don't know it just always kind of appealed to me.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

It's you know there's a lot of kind of geometric pattern and shape and colour that I'm always drawn to and yeah I think the the kind of the permanence of it and the way that it'll kind of last a long time I'm into that.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Yeah that's I yeah that's really it's really we're definitely not going to be throwing any of your stained glass in the bin. That's that's for sure. And so what strengths do you think you've developed since becoming a mother and and how do these show up in your work?

SPEAKER_00 37:21

I think I've had to develop a lot of patience. I think I've become really good at kind of compartmentalizing all the things that need doing getting them done quickly I'm not yeah I remember how I used to be I would have like something to do and it would kind of sit in the back of my mind like you know I have to go you know just just chores things that need doing in day-to-day life but now I will do them now to get them done no and out of the way yes but I do you know the procrastinating I save when I'm in my studio or when heroes at school that's kind of I get all the I get all the boring stuff done so that I have time and space to kind of potter and experiment and you know it takes a long time to kind of that's what I found like I like to really access that creativity that I was lacking I needed just to be less harsh with myself because I would I would say look you've just done fucking nothing today like you you're being so useless you've wasted time because time when you have a kid is it's such an important thing because you don't have any to yourself quite a lot of the time and then the time you do get you think I need to be using this I need to make it important like I can't I can't waste time that would be terrible but I've started allowing myself to not think about that like I I allow myself to sit and think have a cup of tea like just you know read a book try and find inspiration try and clear my mind because without that I can't be creative and it's taken me yeah it's taken me a long time to get to that point.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

And it sounds like it's like a softening that harsh inner critic which we've also mentioned about you know when you were the the ego and being upset when you know someone they a client chooses someone that's cheaper or whatever and or not you. Um and actually it's then that potterying and that space is you're then clear you you've then got the headspace right you've got the headspace to be creative and I always say like the best ideas come in the shower.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah yeah for sure I mean you need to almost be thinking about nothing to have you know to have something appear in your head and I found that really hard and I found it really hard to yeah allow myself to waste time like that. Because it's not a waste of time. It's all useful but when you have like other things to do it feels really kind of selfish in a way.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yeah but it it's still it's so it is important right it's like and also being creative has to be selfish.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

You know you're you're not you shouldn't be doing it for anyone else really you're doing it for yourself. And that's why I've been really resistant lately to putting anything on Instagram like I've been doing quite a lot of work in this don't well I call it work. I've been painting I've been experimenting with stained glass with fused glass and I've been really enjoying it partly because I'm not posting anything about it. That's very interesting anathema to this is so interesting.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

And I mean like I love that you're like yeah to be creative is to be selfish.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

I think so just more it's more that I don't want to constantly be thinking of the person looking over my shoulder at what I'm making you know like I need this to come from me to be able to develop it properly to see it through to have an idea that you know probably doesn't work at the beginning you need to change things you need to have room to play tweak it like think you know what can I do with this do I like it? Is it shit? Is it great? And then through that process you start to learn more about yourself and what you actually want to be creating. If you're showing people that process you're so you become so self-aware that it stops you from wanting to make mistakes and it's the mistakes that make things interesting.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah that's so like I always say like mistakes are heavenly because that's where you learn I find it really interesting that you are you want to make work for you right and does that come from a place where in your recent career where you've done work for Selfridges you've done their windows which is like so many people want to do Selfridges windows is iconic. Your work is shown at the Young VA which is you know one of the biggest museums in this country and so therefore you need to actually make something that people don't see.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Yeah it's interesting because all of those things I'm very proud of them like I loved how they turned out but I never felt like they were truly me you know I think because I don't know I guess because it's when you're thinking in terms of creative process you really start from like a small idea and then it then you kind of let it develop and develop and develop into something quite unexpected. When you're given a brief there's no development there's you get the brief you come up with a few ideas your client chooses which one they want and then you make it and that is more design right rather than being an artist than creating art. There's obviously art comes into it but it's more you know you've got a design and you make it come to life in three dimensions. So for me that feels it feels quite separate from what I'm doing now. And I mean I still you know I still love it and I will still do it um if anyone gives me a job But yeah, I think I yeah, I f I do I feel really proud of myself for those moments and I j I yeah, I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

And I guess proud to also have been doing it whilst juggling motherhood as well. Like what does your process look like when you are, I don't know, looking after your son? Like how how do you make it work? How do you kind of try carve out time in your schedule? Or how yeah, tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Um we've been really lucky, basically, and it's it is it's a huge privilege to be able to work this way. Because me and Cam, Cam especially, his schedules are so ad hoc. Like he kind of he'll work quite sporadically, like he'll work for five days in a row, and then the next week he'll only have two days, you know. I mean, you know. I know.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

So I could always make my jobs fit in around his work. So if he was on a shoot, then I would know that I would be looking after Hero. Importantly, we never had Hero in a nursery. He from the age of three, he went to forest school two days a week. And we realized quite early on that because of our schedules, we could make it work, and it would be crazy to be paying for a nursery when we could make it work between ourselves. So we were always kind of chopping and changing. If I had a job come in, then Cam would either, you know, if there was a shoot that had to be that day, then we'd kind of have a discussion whose whose job is more important sometimes, if they're both important, which was actually quite rarely, we'd get my mum to come and look after Hero. But she doesn't live super close, so it's you know, I always felt like it was quite a big ask to kind of get her to come down for just one day. So those were only that was only when we really couldn't make it work between us.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Okay. So the support of Cam then kind of enabled you to also work and take projects on For sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

And that, you know, that also had its difficulties because even when because after Hero was born and after we moved to this flat, we built the studio in the garden. So once I wasn't working in Dalston anymore, I would just be in the garden, and Hero would be with Cam in the house. And when he was younger, it was you know easier to keep him in the house, but when he gets older, he'll just go, I want to come out and say hello, bring me cute little things. So that obviously created some difficulties, but I'd always make it work. And for longer projects, I'd just have to work in the evenings and have to work at weekends, and that's always been the way.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

You find a way around it and being flexible. And um, how would you describe your career now compared to before motherhood?

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Oh, my career now. I don't even know if I really have a career.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

You definitely have a career. I feel like that's the harsh inner critic coming through.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

You definitely, definitely. I'm I'm on the way to something new which feels exciting, I think. I think I'm kind of I'm putting the pieces together to make a new kind of path. I don't really know what the destination is at all. At the moment, I'm just creating and finding my way kind of out of, you know, the stuck situation I was in for a long time. And it's really helping um just, you know, my mental health, my daily well-being, just to be able to have a creative release that I'm enjoying. And that, you know, because when you're I don't yeah, how can I describe this? When you feel like a creative urge, it kind of builds and builds inside of you. And if you don't get a chance to release it, you just feel like shit, you're so frustrated within yourself, and it comes out in ways that you're not expecting, like situations that shouldn't be stressful are stressful because you're like you're on edge and you can't for a long time I couldn't figure out why. And then when I was able to put myself in the space to create again, I was like, oh, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Amazing. It just free. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah that's so that's so interesting. So you're yeah, so you're on a path now, you don't necessarily know where it's taking you. I'm assuming you're obviously talking about working with stained glass. And as you said, that is a mirror to how you started working with paper.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Yeah, I think so. I think I I've always been kind of optimistic about life. I kind of think if you have something, if you have something to give, something that you really believe in, then you should just let it out. You know, you don't have to necessarily have a plan. But if you don't if you don't show it, if you don't make something of it, then it'll never happen.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

If you don't take action, yeah. It'll never happen. So I I knew I needed to make changes, and it's scary because, you know, my income now is like less than a third of what it was before COVID. And I can I've made peace with that, mainly because Camp is making war, so it's fine, we balance each other out. But I've really trying not to, this year particular, I'm trying not to worry too much. As long as I can pay the bills, as long as you know we're not struggling financially, I'm gonna allow myself to take the time to really explore what I want to explore.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

And also I think like and that is a thing, right? It's like it's the time because when you become a mother and you're trying to fit it in, you know, you you said yourself, right? It took three years before you before your son got into forest school, right? And so therefore those three years, it's not like you're working a nine to five Monday to Friday. Do you know what? Like your hours that you work get condensed. So of course things are gonna take time and it's gonna take longer, but equally like that's okay. Like, as you said, you've got to make um peace with it. Well, I'm really excited to see where the path goes and path takes you. Um I know you will go on to well, carry on doing amazing things. Um, Lydia, where can we find your work? Where can I know you're not sharing recent work on Instagram, but um if we want to see some of the pieces that we've discussed today, where can people find that? My Instagram is the best place.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

And what's the handle? Lydia K Sheriff. Okay. Yeah. Excellent. You've got to be careful with how you spell Sheriff. How do how do we spell it?

SPEAKER_01 51:21

S-H-I-R-R-E-D-F. Amazing, wonderful. Thank you so much, Lydia. It has been such a joy to speak to you. Thank you for sharing your story, hearing about your meandering paths and how they end up so beautifully and visually. And yeah, if you are not familiar with Lydia's work, I would definitely, definitely recommend checking it out because it is a colourful feast. Um, so yeah, thank you so much, Lydia. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this conversation with Lydia. What I love about Lydia is her honesty. She's not pretending she's figured it all out, she's in the middle of it, finding her way back to creativity on her own terms and at her own pace. And I think there's something really powerful in hearing someone say they don't have a plan, but they're making and doing with complete faith that it'll all work out. Follow the podcast and leave a quick review of this spoke to you. It makes a huge difference and helps all mothers and creatives find these conversations. You've been listening to Mothers of Creativity. I'm Sabrina Saal, Creative Business Advisor and Artist Manager, and it's brought to you by Blinkbed Media.