Mothers of Creativity
Mothers of Creativity is a podcast exploring how motherhood shapes and evolves creative careers.
Hosted by creative business advisor and artist manager Sabrina Sarl, the series features honest conversations with women working across the creative industries about ambition and career adaptation before and after becoming a mother. These story-led episodes explore the real shifts that happen behind the scenes, whether that be in pace, priorities, confidence, or creative voice, and the strengths that emerge.
The series was sparked by Sabrina’s own experience of leaving her job, starting her own business, and conceiving unexpectedly in the same week. A moment that led to a career unfolding in ways she could never have planned. Mothers of Creativity creates space for guests to share how their careers have evolved alongside motherhood, beyond clichés and limiting narratives.
This is an ongoing series for creative mothers and for anyone interested in how life experience shapes the way we work and define success.
Mothers of Creativity is produced by Claire Duncan.
Mothers of Creativity
Esperanza de la Fuente, Stylist and Art Director: Risk, Ambition and Never Feeling Established
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Esperanza de la Fuente, known as Espe, is a London-based fashion stylist and art director whose client list includes Calvin Klein, Nike and Zara. On this episode of Mothers of Creativity, she joins host Sabrina Sarl to talk about the years she's spent building that career, starting with a move from Madrid to London and barely speaking any English, through internships at British Vogue and Elle, to going freelance at 27 with £8,000 in savings and no plan beyond it.
The conversation discusses freelance life as a working mother, keeping a styling career running through two maternity leaves, what it takes to make international jobs possible, and bringing her children to set. Espe is also the founder of Whole Talk, a health and wellbeing magazine born out of a diploma in holistic nutrition. She and Sabrina talk through what it means to never quite feel established, and Espe's own take on stepping back from a career you love for your kids: not a loss of ambition, but an act of generosity.
See more of Espe's work below:
@esperanzadelafuente_
@espedelafuente
@wholetalk_
Show Host:
@sabrina.sarl
https://www.sabrinasarl.com/
Show Producer: Cheramie Johnson
Show Editor: Alexandra Covey
Music by Devon May
Podcast Artwork with thanks to David English
Mothers of Creativity creates space for guests to share how their careers have evolved alongside motherhood, beyond clichés and limiting narratives.
This is an ongoing series for creative mothers and for anyone interested in how life experience shapes the way we work and define success.
Would you be brave enough to move to a country where you didn't speak the language just to chase a dream of working in fashion? In today's episode of Mothers of Creativity, I'm talking to Esperanza de la Fuente, known as Espe, a stylist and art director whose client list includes Calvin Klein, Nike, and Zara. Espe left Madrid for London, barely speaking a word of English, and built a career out of internships at Vogan L, and eventually she had the nerve to go freelance with just £8,000 in savings and no safety net beyond that. We talk about what it actually took to build a reputation from nothing and what it looks like to keep a styling career alive through two maternity leaves. And she gives one of the sharpest lines I've heard on this podcast. And why stepping back from your career for your kids isn't a loss of ambition, it's generosity. I've spent 15 years building careers and nurturing creativity, and becoming a mother changed how I see what it actually takes to keep on showing up on the stack and creating. This podcast is where my hand mothers the spotlight so they can talk honestly about what they've built and what motherhood has changed along the way. Welcome to Mothers of Creativity. Hello, Espe. Welcome to Mothers of Creativity. Thank you so much for talking to me. And um, I laugh because we were literally just doing a sound test, and you told me about how you took your son to the park this morning. He vomited everywhere. Um, so unexpected, and you just thought you were doing a nice thing, taking him to the park with the sun out um before going into the studio to do some work. And I feel like that is the pinnacle of juggling motherhood with also a work situation and a work career.
SPEAKER_02So, how how was that? Well, thanks for having me for in the first place, and yeah, it was because it's sunny outside, so I thought, oh I'll uh that'd be so nice. I'll just take him for a little stroll in Clearstall Park before coming to to work, and yeah, 10 minutes in, he started vomiting, and I thought, oh, it's gonna be okay, then again, and then again, and I was like, I think I need to go back home. This is not working.
SPEAKER_00I've known you for so long because I feel like we've emailed for so long, and when I was working at an agency, I would always hear your name mentioned, like Espe, let's get Espe on a job. She's amazing. Yeah, Espe, she's so great. Um, and so I just would love to know like how did you land up? How did you end up in the world of fashion?
SPEAKER_02So I moved to London in 2009 when I had just graduated on fashion design. I studied in Madrid, and then I thought, you know, I'll move to London. Back then it was easy as a European because you didn't have to, you know, it's different these days. So um so I thought I'll just come, you know, I'll do maybe a few internships, try to find a job, improve my English, and and yeah. It wasn't easy, I have to say. It wasn't I and when I look back, I think one of the accomplishments I always try to tell myself is like, you know, you came here, you didn't even speak English, and you managed to, you know, get you know, find a space in this business of being a freelancer and and and that's a big accomplishment.
SPEAKER_00Wow, that is a major accomplishment. Not even speaking English.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was mad. Wow. I mean it was mad because I remember getting some internships for for magazines here, and one of the things you had to do as an intern was picking the phone, picking up the phone on the fashion cupboard, and that terrified me. I remember running away every time the phone rang, I would just go to the loo or something. And I remember I did this internship at British Vogue, and there was another inter intern that eventually was like, Darling, you gotta pick up the phone.
SPEAKER_00That's a great accent, by the way. I really like that.
SPEAKER_02Darling, you need to pick up the phone, and I was like, Oh no, busted.
SPEAKER_00And what were you when you had to pick up the phone? What kind of conversations were you having to have?
SPEAKER_02I think it was mostly people calling to see if we had sent their samples back, or I guess it was more analog back then. So yeah, maybe I don't know, Chanel would call to see if we had sent the look back or it can be picked up, or or maybe they got it back and there was a pair of shoes missing, stuff like that. That I just remember not under I I don't know. Sometimes I would get a few things and I gathered what they were telling me, but most of the time I had no clue what they were saying, and I was just yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so you were kind of muddling through.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I tried my best for sure. I I I actually remember I got those jobs because I learned by heart, kind of like doing an interview, and I knew what they were gonna ask me. So I remember every time I, you know, there was um interview to do an internship, I would just go on like blah blah blah respond back what I had learned by heart, and I think that's how I got by and got these kind of internships initially because I wasn't really fluent in the language, um, and then slowly you just pick it up, I guess.
SPEAKER_00You said that you were um like thrilled to be assisting the fashion director at L. Like, tell me tell me about that. What was that like in your career?
SPEAKER_02Eventually I got a full-time job at L to assist the fashion director, and it was a job I mean, that's a job I wanted. I I had moved to London and I really wanted to work in a fashion magazine, and that was my dream back then. And and when I got it, I was just so thrilled and so happy to be part of that whole ecosystem. So yeah, it was it was pure passion because I mean you did get paid pinance, but but I loved the job so much and that I I got by.
SPEAKER_00What did you love about it?
SPEAKER_02I loved I just loved being in the magazine. I you know, we would just work on these amazing shoots and cover stories and travel the world. I met all these different people, worked with loads of celebrities, and and I and I loved fashion, so you know, I was in touch and touching all the collections and seeing the shows and doing all the fashion weeks. It was a really fun time. You know, I was in my early 20s and it was yeah, it was very exciting.
SPEAKER_00That sounds amazing, like any kind of travel, any fashion. It sounds very devil where's Prada.
SPEAKER_02It does, but actually the the fashion director that I worked for, she was lofley and we got along and it was, you know, it it felt I I never felt like I don't know, like I guess in you know, in that film where you're scared of your boss and I I mean I certainly worked very hard, but I didn't have that fear of like, you know. So I think it was a very healthy environment, that's what I wanted to say, I guess. Um so yeah, it was it was thrilling, it was exciting, it was and also I learned a lot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know. How how long were you at a magazine for?
SPEAKER_02I think at L I was maybe I don't I can't remember, maybe two, three years. Yeah, I think something like that.
SPEAKER_00And then what made you kind of want to leave?
SPEAKER_02Well, uh I think naturally with these jobs you just grow out of it. And I think I wanted more responsibility, I wanted more money. You can only survive, you know, for a long for a certain amount of time on that salary. You need you want to step up, you know, in everything. So and when I realized that I there wasn't an opportunity for me to do it there, I had to look for something else. So then I got offered a job to assist a freelance stylist that I really liked. I mean, I actually I did I didn't know her personally, but I did really like her work, and so that was why I left L, I suppose, and then it was kind of a disaster actually, because it didn't really work out.
SPEAKER_00Why tell me more? This sounds very juicy. Why was it a disaster?
SPEAKER_02Um because let's put it this way, it wasn't so healthy environment. Okay, and I just you know, I I wasn't gonna take it. Yeah. So I just decided after a few months I was I realized that that wasn't for me. I I d I mean I it's almost like I didn't want to be a slave, so I just, you know, I had moved from something to step up into something different, and I felt like I was almost going backwards. So that again didn't didn't work. So I almost I I wasn't planning to go as a you know freelance fashion stylist so early, but I had no choice at the time, and I think that particular situation pushed me to go on my own and to start and and you know it was almost like okay, maybe this is what you do now. Just try and go freelance and see how it goes.
SPEAKER_00And how did it go?
SPEAKER_02Well, to this day. Amazing.
SPEAKER_00So it was obviously always meant to be.
SPEAKER_02So um it wasn't always easy, but uh I guess uh yeah, I should consider myself lucky because I've since I think I was 27 at the time. So and I'm 39 now. So it's been good twelve twelve years, if my maths are. Yes, 12 years. Yeah. Twelve years. So so I think yeah.
SPEAKER_00And how did it feel those first few shoots when you're a fully fledged stylist, you're not an assistant?
SPEAKER_02I was kind of already doing some bits on my own. I think at L, the good thing is that they also gave you opportunities, you know, if there was a small shoot that, you know, none of the fashion editors could do it, then that some of the fashion assistants would do it. So I had my experience already with that, and I had done a few things on my own, and and ever every opportunity that I had with, you know, maybe I met someone on a shoot, and then the um photographer's assistant would suggest should we do something together? So I was always shooting on my own. So I wasn't really scared of that. And and I guess it didn't really feel scared. I think it what was scary wasn't so much the job, it wasn't not having the job. So it was the actual search, how do I get these jobs, right? That was what's scary. I remember if you want me to be fully transparent, when I left that job, I remember thinking, okay, I've got 8,000 pounds on my account that I had been kind of like putting together from all these freelance jobs that I was doing with the fashion director that I was assisting because she would do some extra freelance, which wasn't let's say the salary from the magazine, right? So I kept putting all of that on the side and that was how I was like, okay, I've got this money. You know, if I don't get jobs for like I don't know how many months, then this is what I have. So let's see what happens. And yeah, I made it work actually, because I survived and I thrived, I guess, eventually. Amazing.
SPEAKER_00So what do you think was a strength or a quality that you had that enabled you to thrive?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, I don't know. This is interesting. I never really thought about it. Um what's our strength? I mean, um focus, ambition, uh resilience, um having a clear goal. I think sometimes that's the main thing, isn't it? Sometimes I feel like having a clear goal where you want to go is where you start. Yeah. Because then the rest is just steps that you have to take towards it, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Definitely being clear, clear in your mind. And like I said at the start, I will always remember, and like, you know, this is the God's honest truth. People in the office, in the agency that I would work at with say, Yes, let's get Espe on this job. She's great, she's so trustworthy, she's hard working. And so I think you know, that reputation precedes you. So I'm sure that very much added.
SPEAKER_02It's so nice to hear because you I mean, yeah, I never, you know, I would I would never even think that was happening. So that's nice to to hear. The other day I had a phone call as well with a magazine that I did a shoot for, and and it was with a celebrity, with an actress, and it wasn't the phone call wasn't because of that in particular. We were discussing something else, but then she said something how like the agent of the person had called to say that they were very happy with what I had done with her and they thought I was very talented. With it's their words, not mine. So and and um it was just so rewarding to hear that, actually. It was yeah, because then you think maybe I'm doing something right over here. You know, it's the concept you know, as freelancers, you're never I think you were giving me these prompts for this podcast, like highlights of your career, and and I was like, as a freelancer, is there ever are you ever gonna feel established? Is it do you know what I mean? Because it is it is true. I don't know if you do.
SPEAKER_00Well, I look through your client list when you say, you know, do you ever feel established? And I see Calvin Klein, Mango, Vogue, Belstaff, Nike, Charlotte Tilbury, Harper's Bazaar, Beauty Papers, Creative Direction for Zara. Like, I I mean that sounds very established to me, to be honest.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I guess maybe it does. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Were kids always in your game plan? Like, or were you like now feels like a good time in my career? Did you ever think about it in that respect?
SPEAKER_02Um, I I think I I knew since I was very young that I wanted to be a mother for sure. Um I think also external things will always affect that decision, right? Especially working in something, you know, like it is fashion and the freelance world, and it's such a competitive and it's so fickle as well. And um so there is never I think the right time to have a kid, because that I think that you know flooded to it. I don't know, I we always thought about it, but then you never feel ready, really. Um but then I got married and I I think it just naturally happened. It was and it was really the right time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and before motherhood, what were your priorities with your career? And do you think they shifted once you became a mother?
SPEAKER_02I think yeah, I think they definitely unnaturally shifted. Yeah. I think when you don't have kids, your priorities are, you know, yeah. Def in my case, definitely career, because I'm I consider myself a very ambitious person and I wanna you know, and I'm in and I love what I do and I wanna do well and I wanna do better and and and I want to have a nice life. Um so I guess when you don't have kids you you you can f you have more space to focus on these things. Then you have a kid and all of that reshuffles, but I think it just happened naturally. It doesn't I in my case it wasn't something that it forced me to, you know. It just happened in a very natural and organic way. All of a sudden you start giving importance to things that are m that before you didn't even think about, you know. And yeah.
SPEAKER_00And did you expect your um did you expect motherhood, sorry, to affect your career either positively or negatively? Did you have any preconceived ideas ahead of time?
SPEAKER_02I didn't think about it too much. I did know it wasn't gonna affect positively, let's put it that way. Like, oh yeah, I'm gonna have a baby and I'm gonna be able to do all these trips and do it, you know, and I'm gonna have all this time. So I knew it was gonna affect in some way. Um how? I did not know. I think, you know, before having kids, you have like sometimes you're like, yeah, no, it's gonna be okay, it's gonna be fine, and then you're like, oh my god, no, it's not all of us have this.
SPEAKER_00You're in the trenches, and you're like, How did I end up like the how did I end up going to the park, my child being sick everywhere, and then having to do a U-turn back to the house?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it definitely. I mean, I think with the first baby, I've got two now, so I think with the first one, the the shock is, you know, the freedom, the physical freedom, and emotional too, actually. Because I think before you're just able to commit to all these projects and travel to all these things without even, you know, thinking about anything, because you can do it, but then you have babies and that's not there. You have to plan and organize and you know, and logistics, you know, plan logic logistics with your partner and see if it's possible. So there is like a barrier there that before you didn't have. Um so so yeah, logistically, definitely, and then emotionally also, because you travel and then you're leaving them behind, and that's also tough sometimes. But also it's wonderful because you get a full night's sleep, and you know, and then you appreciate your solo time more. So it's like this whole combination. I mean, one thing I say about motherhood and it's like it's pure contradiction. You're happy, you're sad, you're you know, it's yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but it doesn't sound like you know, but it sounds like you're still able to travel and you're still able to do all the things. Would you would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah. I um I do. Um it's uh I mean you have to put certain things in place in order for that to happen. So me and my husband, you know, or organize it in a way that we can do it. And then because we don't have family, we don't have family support here, so we have to rely on childcare. So um again, you know, we're lucky enough that we can we can do that. Without it, we it wouldn't be possible actually.
SPEAKER_00So So you know, you're you're making it work and and having to rely on external childcare as a key factor into that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 100%. Without the nanny that we have. Sorry, the chair. Um without the nanny that we have today, yeah. I mean, she's wonderful. I feel very lucky. She's looking after my kids when I'm not there. And even I remember not only a few weeks ago at the beginning of the year, I had to go, I had a job in Sri Lanka for a week. Um and so usually me and James tried one of us tries to, you know, is the one that's one stays, the other one travels. But it happened that he got a job in Italy that he had to take because it was a nice job. And um and I was away and we were like, oh my god, what are we gonna do? So then we were so lucky because our nanny agreed to stay for a couple of days with the kids while we were away. So, you know, she's she's become part of the family. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's what you have to do to make it work. And um yeah, it's very interesting because it's like you you know, some parents have a nine to five and but they don't see their child during the day, but then perhaps you took that job but then may not have worked for two weeks. So then you get to spend time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's uh I feel very lucky actually with this job because it's 'cause you know, 'cause you don't have to do all or nothing. You can there are some days like like today that I could come to to my studio a bit later, so I took the Vigo to the park. I mean the whole incident of the vomit happened, but you know, it is nice that you can say I wasn't gonna do it because I was planning to come at nine, but then I thought, you know, it's sunny. I wanna spend a couple of hours with him, so I'm just gonna take him to the park. Um and that's nice, and you can do it because I don't have a nine to five. It comes with another whole, you know, um disadvantages, but it is in that way, you know, it's nice because you can spend you can organize your time and you can definitely spend time with your kids.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um what would you say those disadvantages are?
SPEAKER_02Disadvantages well, the security, you don't have you know a paycheck at the end of the month. Um Constant, so you're working, and when you're not working, you're searching that work. Um, you know, it comes with you know insecurities, I guess. And often when I don't have a job for a few weeks, I'm like, oh my god, am I ever gonna be hired again? You know, these things.
SPEAKER_00Which is a very, very common thought of um every single answer, I know.
SPEAKER_02Um so I think it comes with a whole, you know, it's if even even when when I had my second baby recently, because he's nine months now, um I had I took four months off, and um and I remember seeing these other mums that were taking a year off, and I and I would think, oh my god, how nice to do that, you know. But actually you can't I can't because I could only afford to pay myself four months before, you know, running out of money in order to you know so survive. So so it comes, you know, that's a disadvantage as well, because you and even in those four months you're worried because you're like, what if it I don't get a job when I decide to go back to work and stuff? So it's a whole and this, you know, it's so fickle. One day you get all these jobs, the other day you don't. So it's you yeah, it's uh it's quite grounding. You can never get too big-headed, I'm telling you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, you and you've got to, you know, be open and and be around. So this is a really interesting. This like leads me into my next question is how long did you take off with each of your children?
SPEAKER_02So with Lucas, the whole thing was uh unusual because it was when COVID happened. So I think because he was born in June of 2020 and I think we had been three months. We had spent three months in lockdown by then. When he was born, I think the whole thing was opening up again. But the fashion business, the whole thing with the shoots wasn't really happening. So I think I naturally maybe f yeah, same three months. I think after three or four months, I did a job with him actually when he was three months, but he was with me. And so he was in the job. Oh, he was in the job. He was in the job with me. Yeah, so I was in the job and he was in the job. So it we did let this little shoot for Zara baby. So I was kind of like styling and doing the our direction for it, but he was with me, so it was really cute. It was a very nice experience. But then fully going, you know, without him, it was when he was four months, because I think that's when the whole thing started opening, and also because I had been without work for a while, because also the last three months of my pregnancy there wasn't any work, and I was planning to work until the end, so I had to just go back and start taking jobs again. So I would say four months, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, fine.
SPEAKER_02And then with you it was almost the same thing. Although I did some jobs in between, but I didn't take many jobs. I think I did a couple of jobs when he was a month or two months because they were in London and they were easy. And I think because it was my second baby, I already know knew what I was doing, so it didn't feel like you know um my mum was around, and I think another time we had like a James Day with a baby and a friend or something like that. So yeah, but again, I was lucky to get offered those jobs to take them, but again, it was a one-day thing or a two-day thing, you know, it wasn't a commitment to go full-time, but you could you could make it work quite easily, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um, and what how did you find um going from one baby to two babies? What was that transition like?
SPEAKER_02Interesting, it was very interesting. And uh so two things, because people ask me this all the time. Was it as difficult? Is it as difficult? Actually, a second baby I found way easier than the first one, and I think it was a combination of the baby and yourself, because it's not a shock anymore, right? You have a system in place and you know how everything works, and it's you know, you've done it before, so you know what to expect. So in that sense, uh it was you know manageable and easier, but but then uh obviously you it duplicates, so it's two of you and two kids. So logistically again you have to reshuffle everything and and you know, at some I remember I I don't remember how old was the baby, but I remember thinking, oh my god, I had everything in place and now this bomb coming into the family again. So um but with kids everything changes so much and so quickly that one day you're suffering because you don't sleep and you're having the worst time, and then another time they sleep and then you forget about it. Yeah. So it's it's yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I feel like that's just mother nature, right? Not just is like makes you forget. Like I even remember with my daughter who's 16 months now, she was a terrible sleeper, but now she's sleeping well. And I'm like, wait, was she a terrible sleeper? Yeah, you couldn't. I don't know, like maybe and then I and I like look on the app that I track the sleep, and I'm like, oh my god, that is yeah, horrible.
SPEAKER_02Well, I would never forget that though, because Lucas was a terrible sleeper and Vigo started well. The first four months he was okay, and then from four to eight, it was an absolute nightmare. Like five, six times and five, six times a night. I mean, it was yeah, it was a very stressful household that at the time. I thought, I mean, I was like, I'm gonna get divorced. Run away from my kids. It was yeah, sleep is everything. Sleep is such an important thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I bet you were like, please, someone put me on a 14-day shoot away.
SPEAKER_02Oh god, I love sleeping. Yeah, when I I think I had I had one job in Portugal when he was four months or something, and I just I was very sad to leave him actually. It was quite hard. I was, you know, crying in the airport and stuff like that. But then I got to Portugal and I was like, what? I'm coming to my room after the job. I don't have anyone to feed or to look after. And I'm and I was and people were like, Do you want to come for dinner? No, I want to stay in my room or their room service. You know, the bar is very low these days, so that is what made me happy and then in bed by nine.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, that sounds amazing. That sounds such a dream, and I um I just know that there are a whole host of parents that work in this industry or even have jobs where they need to travel that will completely resonate with those um with those stories. Um and like what what strengths do you think you've developed since becoming a mother, and how do you think that shows up in your work and your career?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I don't know how I mean I definitely feel um I've learned to be more patient, um, but I don't know if that necessarily relates to my career. Um I think maybe giving importance to the things that deserve it in a way and let go of the things that maybe are not so important that maybe when you don't have kids you you know they're so important to you or or you think they are actually, but then you realize that they aren't. So I think maybe in that sense that has come in handy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, being I guess being quite um targeted with your time and where your energy is spent, perhaps, and making making the thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean definitely you have to become very productive and very organized, I would say. I have to be extremely organized because I think we were discussing this when I saw you earlier before we recorded, but the um the amount of hours that you have now to be at work or to be productive are they shrink, right? Because mornings are nights are no longer yours, because you have these kids. So when actually when my friend was telling me the other day, yeah, I like waking up and then I do my journaling and then I do this thing, and I'm like, huh? That even when what did I do that before kids? Obviously, I had all that time, but I don't, you know, I took it for granted clearly. Mornings and nights are done for me. There is nothing I can do. Also, because by the time at night you put the kids to bed, you're so tired that the only thing you want to do is go to bed yourself, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and do you have any, I guess, like tips or hacks to make yourself more productive in those hours?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I do a calendar and a schedule. I feel like that's what it's helped me, making lists of things that I need to do. Um having a very organized calendar on my phone helps me. And having a notebook as well where I write all the things. Um, because the thing is like you even have to squeeze your personal things in those hours, right? You even have to squeeze doing the shopping for the house, or like, I don't know, doing a yoga class. So, you know, they shrink, the time shrinks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You've got to be very associated.
SPEAKER_02So you have to like do in, you know, maybe in four hours, what do you used to do in more hours? Because maybe you got home and you had dinner and then you sat down and I did a couple of hours of prepping for a job. Now I have to squeeze it during that window. So I think that's the way I do it, just being super organized, extremely organized. And and I write everything down. I like writing things down and crossing. I'm very analogue. I use a notebook, I put it on my calendar, but I also have these notebooks where I just cross and cross and cross.
SPEAKER_00Um, I mean exactly the same. Like the satisfaction of crossing something off. It's just like oh, so good. Um, yeah, I'm totally with you on that one. Um, what are you most proud of in your career since becoming a mum?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. Keeping it up, keeping up with it. Um I think I think it's that probably. Well, I launched Whole Talk, which is this health and well-being magazine, um, when when Lucas was born, so that was in 2020. So when I look back, I'm like, wow, I even managed to do that, you know, which is not related to my career in styling. I mean, it's kind of related because the magazine is visually very um curated, I would say. So when I remember at the time people were asking me, what are you most proud of with this magazine? I was like, the fact that I put it together and I made it happen, that was a big accomplishment. And and I think a big accomplishment is just, you know, managing to to survive with my career and and and support myself with it and and keep going. I think that for me will be the you know, and and and I hope I can carry on and and do the same. I hope sometimes you wonder, will I have to take a full-time job? Will I have to, you know? But so far I haven't had to, so I think maybe that's an accomplishment. So yeah, and hopefully I can keep doing what I like. And yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um I've got a copy, oh I've got uh yeah, copies of your magazine in front of me, which are so so beautiful. And I'd love to hear more and how you even decided that actually, like, let's create something like this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so when when the whole COVID thing happened, I I mean, like with everyone, everything shifted, right? All of a sudden you started think about other things, and you know, my my my jobs at the time had all gone because we couldn't shoot. Um so I had always had a very I mean I was always very interested in health and well-being and nutrition and how that affected well. I guess also because I had suffered from a lot of you know imbalances and tummy problems and throughout a very long time, which made me go into research and look for alternative things. So I think naturally I was always very interested in it. And then I decided to um graduate in holistic nutrition. And during that time, which now looking back, I I think I was crazy because I had a very young baby, and then I started shooting again and yeah, and I took that upon myself. But actually, it was it was very interesting, and and I managed to do it. So um for the I think to gradu for the graduation I had to present a project. So I decided I would do a very beautiful health and well-being magazine, and and I presented to the teachers and I got my diploma, but I had worked so hard in that magazine, on that project, that I decided that maybe I just have to bring it to life and actually sell it. And and yeah, so I published it.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. And did you um you've got multiple issues? Is there plans to publish any more? Where do you see it taking you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I have five issues, and I took a break after uh the um veagle, my baby, um, because it the the future of Holtalk is uncertain at the moment because it is a beautiful project and it has certainly fulfilled um, you know, a part of myself, the creative part, and and obviously learning about and deepening to that subject um of like health and well-being and lifestyle and and all the things that go with it. I think it whole talk can be many things. I I don't have the answer yet, but I think maybe it will naturally, you know, develop into something different. Um I might launch another issue, um, but I don't know exactly what the future of whole talk is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so so future of whole talk is unsure. Where is your focus at the moment with your career?
SPEAKER_02I'm definitely focusing more in my styling and our direction, you know, career, just because it's my bread and butter, and and when you have kids, you have to be very practical. And as I said, because we are, you know, time shrinks, then you have to be very organized with that time. And at the minute, obviously living in London and the cost of living here and and and to actually to respond to your question, what you know, um what did you learn with motherhood? I didn't know having kids was so expensive. So or was going to be so expensive. So especially not having family around. That's what I you know, because that maybe if you have family around, you have that support, maybe it's not so much, but childcare these days. Um anyway, so so yeah, I'm focusing more in you know, in styling and art direction because Do you have a preference with one or the other or you enjoy it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because when you're a stylist, I think naturally you're doing art direction when you're doing all these shoots, you're planning them, you create the idea, you know. You work as a team with a photographer and stuff, and but I think naturally you do a lot of art direction and it just naturally and now I like doing art direction in certain projects because it's it's it's more you're working on the global, you know, in the mall, in the image, so it's all the pieces rather than just the styling, right? So I enjoy it as well, but I love styling as well. So I I couldn't, I don't think I I could do one or the other. Yeah. I like doing both.
SPEAKER_00And how would you define your style? How would you define your aesthetic?
SPEAKER_02Ooh, that's a difficult question. Because our style, I mean, I think style is constantly evolving, isn't it? Um it's a tough question for me to answer. You might have to ask someone else that sees my what do you think actually?
SPEAKER_00Well, I always like to say to people, if there was a headline written about you, what would you want that headline to say about your work?
SPEAKER_02She's a great stylist. No. Um You are a great stylist. This is not the first time I get, you know, that question, and I always have a very hard time responding because I don't think about it. It comes naturally to me the way I do things, so I don't have a specific, you know, I follow, it's just yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think when I think of your styling, I think it's very beautiful, it's elegant, it's chic, it's modern, um, it's very wearable, like all of those things come to mind. And I even I even look at you now, and like you are your styling. Like I look at your like gorgeous rings. I mean, I'm such a magpie for jewellery anyway. But all of those like little delicate touches which I see show up in your work as well, like I can understand it comes completely naturally to you. Thanks. Yeah, yeah. And so tell us where can we see, where can we find your work?
SPEAKER_02Esperanzadelafuente.com.
SPEAKER_00We will definitely link that in the show notes.
SPEAKER_02And do you have an Instagram where people can talk about the it's uh the same Esperanza de la Fuente uh with underscore. Then I've got my personal Instagram, which is Espe de la Fuente, if you want to see more kids and you know, not so much styling, but yeah, I think but it basically my kids took over and then I had to create a whole professional Instagram, and then I have my whole talk one, so by all means go and give some love to that one, because that's the one that needs it, which is um whole talk underscore as well.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, I actually we'll we'll we'll find and and link and that actually that's that actually reminds me of something I'm really keen to ask you is your kids feature so heavily in your social media was like where like there is um you don't hide them, and I love that. Like, was that always your intention? Because you know, in this industry, sometimes it's like gotta hide that I'm a mum, can't shout about it, but you know, you're kind of like no holds barred, which I really really love. So tell me more about that.
SPEAKER_02It just happens naturally. I even question that myself sometimes because with these days with the whole thing of like putting kids, you know, online. I I wonder, is this a good thing, is this a bad thing, you know, because it's scary. You never know where where when when those pick where those pictures are gonna go and stuff like that. So I I I often think about it, am I doing right? I'm not I'm I'm not doing I I'm not sure. I'm doing the right thing in in that sense, if you know what I mean, in terms of um I I mean I guess obviously I'm not a celebrity, so so I I think if if if I was a public figure, I think I would be very more definitely more careful with that. But it just comes naturally, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think it makes you human, to be honest, and I think we could definitely do, especially within the fashion industry, shouting more about it because I know that there's a lot of women that hide it, like no shame on that, but also equally like why it's part of our life, and yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, there was I remember hiding my pregnancy up until very late though, going back into that because there was some sort of I guess it just dies with yeah, well, you don't want them to know in case they don't give you a job, but they don't think you're gonna be capable of doing it, or like, you know, so there was that was there for sure. I remember going to meetings and having, you know, a very baggy jumper for a while, especially at the at the end of the pregnancy where you didn't really want it to, until it's unavoidable, obviously. But um, I definitely had those feelings as well with both, actually. Um so um, and I remember seeing, I don't remember exactly when it was, it wasn't long ago. I think it was in the parliament, in but I think there was the European or something that these um I think it was the German um politician came into the, you know, when they go on.
SPEAKER_00And she was carrying Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you talking there was someone like that was breastfeeding, maybe? Or bringing that?
SPEAKER_02Wasn't breastfeeding, she was carrying, she wanted to the stand and talk with her baby in a carrier. Okay, and I thought, wow, that was so brave of her. Because but at the same time, it's like, why is it even shocking me, you know, because we should be doing more of these things. And um, and not feeling so the other day I had to bring my son Lucas to a shoot because I had a shoot, and then he was coming from disappointment early, and and then I brought him to the shoot, and initially I was feeling bad. The producer was gonna think, oh, you know, she's not professional, she's bringing her kid into work. And then I thought, but why? You know, it's you know, I was so focused anyway, and I loved having him around. It was such a nice thing to do. And he spent some hours and he saw me at work, which is so valuable as well and amazing. They see their mom at work, you know, we're breaking into these whole things, mom. You know, she's working, she's uh ambitious, she's supporting us. She's it's a very good thing, it's a very positive thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is, and also I remember from being a child going into work with either of my parents, and it's like the most exciting thing to see, and to give that opportunity to our children is um and if that's on a show where there's uh table of snacks for it to take.
SPEAKER_02Imagine he was having a blast.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. But you know what? That it's it's so true. I think as a woman, we think about those things and we think about how it's gonna come off and whether we talk about having a kid or not. And um I've I've said this before where I now with clients, if I am taking the afternoon off to be with my daughter, like I will let them know that I'm not gonna be around, and I actually don't hold back about that, and it lands well with clients that have kids because they're like, Yeah, cool, great, I get it. Um people that don't have kids may not get it, but you know what, that's fine, like that's just me. And I think I would like to encourage more people to make that the norm and not feel like they need to hide away from it.
SPEAKER_02I agree. I think we have to slowly, you know, break and even if it makes us uncomfortable, as I said, it did make me a bit uncomfortable initially, and then I just power through that feeling. Because it's you know, for men I find that their life doesn't really change, they don't have that kind of you know, and for us it seems we carry that weight, especially of our careers. So I think we need to be there's there has been, I mean, uh definitely an improvement, but we have to do more.
SPEAKER_00I feel like you know, doing this podcast and having these conversations, it's just helping raise awareness that you know when you have a child and become a mother, like you you gain superpowers. You're a like you're able to do your job like even better than before, right? Because mums are powerhouses because they have to fit so much in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's what I yeah. I I saw this interview with Kate Winslett. I don't know what she was talking about, it was very interesting. I don't know if you saw when she was talking about women and how like yeah, we women take a a break in their careers because they care, because they care about their children, they care about the things. It's not because they don't care about their careers or like or their their time shrinks, what we're talking about, and then all of a sudden you have less time to to do to put into your career, and it's not because you don't care. You love your career, but all of a sudden you have to look after other people, do you know? So I think it's important we think about uh motherhood in that way, rather than putting women down or seeing them as less ambitious or or less valid or less you know worth it. You're gonna have to hire someone because actually it's like wow, someone is giving up their passion or momentarily their passion because they're gonna look after someone. I think that says way more. Yeah, actually. You're putting something that you love so much on the side because you have another priority, because you have to look after something else. So isn't that I mean an act of generosity? I mean, for me that's like wow, yeah, you know, you don't put it on the side because you just I'm I'm sure sometimes you put things on the side because you don't want to do them anymore, but there's most cases that you know you you love your career and you love what you're doing, but you have to take a break or like pause it for the time being.
SPEAKER_00Definitely, definitely. You can't like you genuinely can't do it all, which um is almost like a lie that we've been missold, right? It's we've got it, it's a constant juggle.
SPEAKER_02It's a constant juggle until you can. Yeah, I guess when they're little you have to give them more time. But then eventually I was telling this to a friend that has had a baby three months ago and she was feeling very trapped at home, and and I said, you know, you go back to work really quickly, and all of a sudden, you know, the grow and things shifts, and then all of a sudden you have your freedom, quote unquote, back. And you're all the all that feel of like going back to your normal life, and you go back to your career and you go and focus on it and and you know, you're back at it. With you know, obviously things have changed, but you can go back to pursue what you were doing. Yeah, but you know, there is it's there's always gonna be limitations, let's put it that way.
SPEAKER_00Limitations, and you've taken a pause, and your you know your brain feels different, and you know, it's yeah, perspective has shifted. Well, um, Espe, thank you so much. It's been really, really joyful chatting to you about all things career, motherhood, and um, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00What stays with me about Espe is how completely she embodies her own work. Her creative eye and aesthetic comes in so naturally to her. I love that she was daring enough to leave home for a country where she couldn't speak the language to build a career she'd never worked in before. She was committed enough to make it work no matter what stood in the way. A little bit like when she had her baby be part of her shoot. Espece sees opportunities and then works with what she's got. Also love that she went from assisting on other people's magazines to building one of her own with whole talk. Print might not carry the way it used to, but in Espace's world it still really matters. It's where she gets to put her other great passion, health and well-being, into something you can actually hold. You'll find links to Espay's work in the show notes. Um please follow the podcast and leave a quick review if this episode spoke to you. It makes a huge difference and helps more mothers and creatives find these conversations. You've been listening to Mothers of Creativity. I am Sabrina Starr, and it's brought to you by Blinkbed Media.