SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to Mothers of Creativity. My name is Sabrina Saal. This podcast is where I hand mothers the spotlight so they can talk honestly about what they've built and what motherhood has changed along the way. What does a powerhouse do when motherhood asks her to stop? My guest today is Chantal Shakila Tiagi, founder of global production company Tiagi, whose credits include British Vogue, Vanity Fair, HM, and Stella McCartney, to name a few. Chantelle phoned a boarding school herself at nine years old and got in on a scholarship. At 11, she was getting her parents to buy tuck shop suites in bulk from the Cash and Carrie so she could sell them to her friends. They still hold it against her, but as she sees it, it was just business. She fell into production after watching a bossy, organized executive producer run a shoot and thought, well, I have those skills. In this episode, she also shares her top tips for making the most of networking events. You're gonna want to make notes of those. So, after several years of running her extremely successful production company without ever switching off, what happened when she took 40 days at home with her newborn, following what she describes as a traditional Indian practice of not leaving the house? Chantelle is also the founder of Kin Club that hosts curated networking events for ambitious parents. And most importantly, she is a mum to her young son Cassius. Welcome to Mothers of Creativity. Thank you for having me. You are so welcome. I'm so thrilled to have you on here. When I think of you, I think of you as a powerhouse.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Oh, that is a compliment.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

With your like list of clients, just like even cherry-picking some of them. Harper's Bazaar, Vogue, Margaret Howe, De Beer, you've shot with Naomi Campbell, Lord, Isla Fisher. You've got offices worldwide, an army behind you making everything happen. I just want to know, have you always been a powerhouse?

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Uh do you know what actually I actually think I have? I opened my first business when I was 11, and I my parents who owned businesses were going to the cash and carries to get their supplies for their business. And I would make them buy sort of those tuck shop suites en masse, and I would take them back to my school because I was at boarding school and have them on my lock drawer, and I would sell them to my mates.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

To this day, my mates now still hold it against me that I sold them my my suites rather than gaving giving them to them. But actually, because we were in Brighton and we were on a clear, I was like, I actually saved you a really long, wet, windy journey, guys. You know, it's you it's a it's just business.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Yeah, you were already looking out for people from an early age. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

So um, yeah, I definitely think I had that mentality very early on. I actually even sent myself to boarding school um at 10. Um, Googled it, just got in my head I wanted to go to boarding school, Googled best boarding schools in England, called them up, made an appointment. I was at school and my dad got a call from the registrar. I was like, Oh, can we speak to Chantal? And he was like, sorry, why'd you want to speak to my nine-year-old daughter? Uh, and then we're like, Oh, oh, she's she's nine. We've we've just had a voicemail, you know, uh inquiring about admissions to the school, and he just burst out laughing and humoured me and let me sit the test because he didn't actually have any faith I'd get in. Um, and then I got a scholarship and then off I went to boarding school.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Wow. What do you think inspired you to go to boarding school?

SPEAKER_02 4:17

The Little Princess.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

I saw the film and went, that looks so cool. Um, I'm gonna try it. It looked like a sleepover with my best mates. Yeah. So um I just thought it would be really interesting, and that's what I did.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Great. And what else do you think you learned from going away to boarding school?

SPEAKER_02 4:32

I just think I mean indep I'm like fiercely independent, you know, and I think I I have got a close family, but I didn't really see my parents more than once a year. They moved to Malaysia um because I was in boarding school, you know. They were like, she's alright, she sent herself there. Um and my mum's Malaysian, so they kind of moved back there when I was maybe 13, 14. Uh, so I didn't see them a lot, but it just made you crack on and get on with things. And I think I really built the understanding of relationships, and that probably is the foundation, which is the foundation of my business now and how I've got to where I am purely relationships, but that comes from understanding and growing up with people around you.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Wow, like such an important skill set, just even just negotiating how to deal with people and understanding and reading people, which I think is so, so key as a producer, as a founder of a business. So, how did you then jump into the fashion industry?

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Honestly, accidentally, I think I always had my own particular sense of style, I think everyone would tell you, looking back over the years. I never really cared uh about trends, I would just think something was cool and bright and ostentatious and OTT, and I would always be wearing it. And so would the rest of my family, so I think that's kind of where that came from. Uh, but I never had an interest in fashion. I didn't grow up reading magazines like other people in the same way. Uh, I actually wanted to be an actress and a singer, and that's what I trained to do. I was at stage called from four, I went to National Youth Theatre, and I studied theatre arts at Middlesex and I worked my way through university, so every holiday I was doing an internship or something, and they it started at MTV, that was my first internship, and then they evolved into sort of fashion-y-based internship. So I came out of university with a pretty good CV. I never kind of went on big holidays over summer, I was always working. Um, and then my first internship out of a uni was at Liberty. Okay, wow in fashion marketing, and I saw this woman, I think shooting for the Liberty magazine at the time, um, put a shoot together. And I had no idea what a shoot was because I think outside of that world, I just honestly thought that these people were that pretty, they turned up, someone put some clothes on them and took a photo. I had no idea there was a lighting tech behind it, there's a set designer, that someone has to produce these uh post-produce the images, like the whole the the DigiTech. There's a man looking at it on a laptop. Why would you do that? Just blew my mind. And there was this woman who was the exec producer who was really bossy and organised, and I thought, well, I have those skills, I could do that. And I was like, I didn't even know that was a job. So then I started Googling production assistant jobs and fell into my first job at Rep Limited, which was a boutique um stylist and photography agency uh in London, New York, and that's where I began.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

What do you think you learn in that first job at Rep Limited?

SPEAKER_02 7:42

I mean everything. I think it was Baptism by Fire, it's a very small team. Uh it was me, myself and I, uh, and then Rachel, my boss, the um my agent, who we're still friends now, and actually my company produces for her now, so that's really nice, kind of full circle moment. And learnt everything from her, and um, I think being thrown in the deep end at such a young age and wanting to prove yourself, you will go above and beyond. You know, we were producing editorials and advertising jobs from scratch across all of Europe, and that's three, four a week.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Okay, wow, so three to four shoots a week that you were producing from scratch, and were you booking teams, looking for teams, locations, everything from scratch, teams, putting budgets together.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yeah, putting the budget together, and just working for the photographers that we represented. So I just didn't because I had nothing to compare it to, I assumed that that's just what you did on those time zones and at that amount. And I guess I had that output, so it that output grew because it was growing with me. Um, and the first three months I had no idea what I was doing. I cried probably every day. I was googling what is an option because I like no one tells you that.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Um I do, yeah, I love that. I love when you actually talk to people outside of the industry and you're like, Oh, I can't do that day because I've got an option, and they look literally looking blank. So an option is a shoot option for anyone that is listening that doesn't know.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Yeah, exactly. And you just forget that, and I guess them everyone throwing that word around just assumed I would know what that meant, and I was too scared to ask. Um, so yeah, the first three months were really hard, and then I just don't like to be bad at things, so I just knew I I had to figure it out, and then I did, and spent five years there. Uh, and because it was a small agency, five years really feel like ten because you're doing so much more than you would with uh a bigger agency for support.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

And what was your work-life balance?

SPEAKER_02 9:39

There wasn't a balance, uh, especially that young as well. It was so exciting going to parties and flying around the world as well, and you know, going to be on set at these places, and that there was a buzz. You I didn't work was my life, and I loved that. Um, it wasn't until I got older that I realised I didn't love that and I didn't feel like I felt I had a balance because I had an outlook because I was still partying, I was still going to these parties and enjoying myself, even though it was in a work setting.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

What do you think was one of the highlights?

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Uh one, there were so many. I think um I think the biggest highlights was seeing the world at such a young age being a and being responsible for such huge campaigns. Like we did a huge Bally campaign, Adidas, Gucci, like we've done huge I I I was doing that. And to have that kind of responsibility and pull it off was really rewarding. I think what I found hardest was because I was only 20, I started at 21, 22, um, at that job. I looked young and I was running the job the jobs, and I think people a lot, I mean I had had people be, oh that's the intern, and then realised I was the exact producer, and it's so interesting watching watching their behaviour change the minute they found that out. Um so that I think I found hard.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

So you are you're at rep, you were there for five years, and you then decided it was time to leave.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

It just got too much. I think I the everything was just a lot, you know. By that point I I did have an assistant um who'd been there sort of two years or so, and I just I just couldn't do it anymore. Um and I wanted to change and I planned to go back into acting and to pursue that because I thought maybe I've given this a go, maybe mm that's where my heart should be. Um so that was my plan, and in that time of thinking of pursuing acting again, and and comedy, I did stand up comedy for a large stint of time at uni. Um, I realised I needed money, and so I was like, well, I obviously have this skill, so I will freelance. So I freelanced to survive, I guess, whilst I kind of figured out how does one get into acting now. Um, and I guess that snowballed, and actually the freedom and autonomy doing it for myself, I guess changed my perspective on it, and I think maybe I just needed a change for how I was working, not that I didn't like production anymore. And I did some holiday cover for Porter magazine um for the I can't remember her title now. Um who she sat under the head of head of uh bookings editor and I did her holiday cover and then the bookings editor, editor Carla Shield, shout out Carla, um asked me to then do her holiday cover and did that for a bit and then went well well, and they then asked me to produce once I'd left produced their covers for Rosmond Pike and Claire Four. And that was the first time I was really kind of asked to do something solo because before the freelance kicks I was doing sort of in-house cover, etc. Um, but not anything myself. It was my dad who was like, You should be a limited company to protect yourself. It wasn't at any point did I ever think I wanted to open a business. Um any kind of business, let alone a production business. Uh, and then I just made it a limited company pretty much because he told me to. Um and and because I think I'd bought or wanted to buy a flat, etc. So it was just like it was honestly just an admin choice. Um and then right place, right time, one of my really good friends, Liana Fowler, who is an amazing set designer, I also represent her, and the godmother of my child. Uh she put me in touch with Dan Belleieu, who at the time is not the big Dan Belleieu we know, um, sort of was kind of the beginnings of his career, and he got an amazing opportunity with to shoot the Baumar campaign uh with Cara Delavine and the unveiling of the new monogram, which was a huge worldwide campaign, but he just didn't really know where to start, um, didn't really have an agent or producer, and so she put us in touch. And honestly, just that moment was a butterfly effect, and that started everything of where we are now, and again, it's down to relationships. I'd worked with Liana when she was a s uh a studio assistant in Lock Studios when I was at Rep when I was 21-22, and we sort of kept in touch and built that relationship and friendship, and people put you in touch with people. Uh, and then I did the job, and it was I mean, it was huge. I think I underestimated how big that job was looking back at it, and the how I would approach it now was probably not how I would have then.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

When you say it was huge, tell me more.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

I mean, it was not only just the talent, obviously Kara was really, really like at her peak at the time, but you know, it was being dropped around New York and Asia and like literally worldwide. Uh and we did everything, produced it all from scratch, and it was huge. Um, it was all about the elements, so sort of fire and water and air, and using the monograms and um the new monogram in those scenarios, um, you know, burning a giant bee on a beach in Kent and getting permissions to do that, um, etc., all on on a budget. And uh after that, I had a young guy who had helped me out again. A friend recommended him, and he'd sort of I sort of pulled together the people I knew to build this mini team that had to pull off this job, and we'd worked really well together. He was work he was working in a coffee shop at the time, and I think he'd just finished m studying music. And I just said, Do you want to assist me for a bit? Uh it'd be more fun than the coffee shop. And so he did, he started, he was my first employee, and then and then honestly it just grew from there. We then hopped around offices and the team grew a little bit and the work came in a bit more, and I was like, Oh, we're a company now.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Wow. What what do you think was the defining moment where you kind of I'd g I guess like a pinch me moment where you were like, Oh my gosh, we really are a real company?

SPEAKER_02 16:20

I think moving into an actual office because originally we were in my one bed flat in the the living room and that was fine for a bit. And then not even just having my work in my living room, which was a lot, it was more we had kit and we had deliveries and we had and also people don't want to keep coming to my flat. So it got to the point I was like, oh, we need a space. So we moved into our first space that we shared an office with Wax London clothing uh in Farringdon, and then I was like, Oh, yeah, this is a thing. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

And what do you think that young girl that went to boarding school would think of that moment?

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Nailed it. But yeah, yeah, I think so. I think I find it hard to stop and take in things because I'm always there's no glass ceiling for me. If I have an idea, I will just do it. And I don't like having to I find it really difficult, especially with brands as well, when you're oh I've just got to wait, wait for sign off, it's gotta go up at this level and this level and the red tape, I find it so exhausting. And I've never worked in a big company. I literally worked in a small business and then fell into my own. I have no corporate experience or real understanding of that. So for me, when we're dealing with clients like that, I find that really difficult. So I just do stuff.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Um you make it happen, and actually, one thing that I've always kind of come to realise from our conversations and from our meetings is like you just get shit done and you're very straight talking, which I think actually in the fashion industry is quite rare because there's a lot of chat.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah. Um I don't know, is it British of us to be very fluffy and polite? I don't know. I just I think you can be polite, but I just think you just get to the point, you know. Um I think there's different obviously I believe I understand the building of a relationship, but also when it comes to just making decisions, make the decision. Um sometimes I think it does not work in my favour, and I have learnt to sit on things.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Oh, what was the thing that you learnt to sit on?

SPEAKER_02 18:26

I think just responding to people sometimes. I think because I am so quick-fired, not even, you know, yeah, and angry or someone sort of rubs you up, but actually sitting to sit with my thoughts is something I am learning. Um, because I might not feel the same way the next day. I just think I'm so used to wanting to just crack on. Okay, you know, that I sometimes forget to stop and realize there's value in that.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Has there been a moment in your professional world where actually you've maybe jumped the gun a little bit too quickly and you've regretted it? Can you tell us what happened? Um what springs to mind?

SPEAKER_02 19:03

I I think there's just been times where I've sort of sent maybe an email that's a little bit more abrupt than that probably could do with some fluffed. Um but I'm like the non-fluff, that's my role. My role is to keep everyone in check in budget and on time. And sometimes people don't love that, but then I learn, you know, a little bit of fluff around that can help the scenario a little bit more. So I yeah, there are a few things I think that's probably where this sort of mulling over is developed from.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

If we then look at motherhood and your journey there, where were you with your business? Was it when you decided to become a mother? Have you always wanted to be a mother? Was that always in your your path?

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Yes, I definitely always wanted a family. I think I I met Ricky two years before I opened Tiagi, I guess. We'd only just sort of started dating. And we're now what ten years in. And I think and he also is an entrepreneur and has built a business, is building a business, was building it at the same time. He opened his business six months after me, his first business. And I think as we grew and I understood, oh actually, I I want to make this life with you. I think w we both sort of realized that our businesses had to be in a good place, and I think actually, because we were never gonna go back to work for someone else at this point, and if we were gonna have a family, it had to be a point where our businesses could function, and I'd got to the point where we our team was strong enough, I had a good senior team and a great um sort of right-hand woman. Shout out Martha Barr, um, who's sadly no longer with the business, but you know, remains a very good friend. And um, I'm pleased I can call her that after the time we spent together, and I'm very grateful for her um support during my maternity. Um, and I knew I wanted I was like, okay, the business is in a good place, and I feel confident in the team to have a moment to step away. And I think we got pregnant quicker than I probably imagined. We sort of had a window, and then it happened, which I'm very grateful for, but maybe mentally thought I'd have more time, and then I was very ill the first three months, um and I was just in bed all day throwing up.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Oh really?

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Um, and luckily I dodged it with my team. I'm on, you know, oh, I'm working from home, and you guys worked from home, or they were on set, and but then it got to the point and one of my one of my team I think thought that I was very unwell or dying because I just wasn't around. Um Cassie's has definitely made 90% of potato waffles because that's all I could eat. Uh and I found pregnancy. And then after the third month, I like life and I it was a spring my step and I loved being pregnant. But I found the whatever the pregnancy brain in inverticomas really difficult. And my team was so patient with me. Like I would just forget things halfway through a voice note or a conversation, what we were talking about. And I found working very difficult. Uh, and then before you know it, your baby's here. Um, and then I kind of only took off around three months.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

And I can totally empathize with that baby pregnancy mushy brain when you're someone that's so like can get everything done, and then all of a sudden you're like, I don't even know what day it is.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Or I can't move.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

I yeah, it is honestly, it's debilitating.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Um, you said you took three months off. Was that a conscious decision? Did you feel ready? Tell me.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

No, my brain was like, Oh, I'm gonna have a year off, and all my friends that uh had their own businesses were like, Well, we we know you, and there's no way you're gonna take a year off. Uh you because of the person that you are. Uh and I was I left it pretty open-minded. What I did do though is I took 40 days, which is sort of very traditional Indian practice of not leaving the house really. Um, I I mean my old family sort of put their two pence in because that's what they do, um, and couldn't understand that I wanted to not leave the house and that I was gonna go mad, so they managed to persuade me to do like walks around our block in Twickenham, but otherwise I absolutely wouldn't have left the house. I was like, I have a garden, guys, why do I need to leave? Um, but I am so pleased I had those boundaries. We only had uh di immediate family, and even then everyone was very respectful about being around, and I lit and it was peak um heat wave at the time because he was born in June, and honestly, we would just sat naked in the house all day. That was all we did, and we just had uh skin on skin time, and it was the best thing I ever ever did, and that was the first time in seven years, because we were seven then, that um I ever blacked out for my business. I had no idea what was happening in those 40 days. The team never contacted me. Amazing, and I was a bit itchy, there was times I wanted to know, but I also was like, Well, what am I gonna do about it? They'll be fine, and if they're not fine, then that that's not fine and we'll move on. Uh, and that was really freeing and amazing, but then I realised that after those four that was really the 40 days, is really what I truthfully took. And then after that, you had to tap back in because you have to, you cannot just tap out of being a business, that's it, that's it. Um, and then we had a team member leave, and that I think spurred on my uh thoughts to come back, really. Um, and I saw I was getting a bit itchy, and so by three months I started working from home, and he was still a baby blob, so he just sat on the table in his little ring, and I just figured out the time around nap times and dialed in, and he would be strapped to me and in in his sling, and we did some calls and it was fine, and we just kind of mushed through it.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Were you working when you went back? Was it like nine to five Monday to Friday, or you were kind of just like dipping in, dipping out, depending on your energy level?

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Yeah, it was kind of dipping in, dipping out, and then I sort of developed a bit of a routine and support around me. So on Wednesdays I would go to my parents and they would help me, and I also for me made him him understand that I was around, but other people are looking after you, you have other caretakers, um, and I think that helped our sort of attachment as well in a healthy way, yeah. That um, you know, you can't miss me if I'm always there, um, and helped me not feel so anxious about leaving him. Um, so I had Wednesdays I had my mum, Thursdays my aunt would um come and support me, and then so I could kind of get more work done, and then Fridays my sister had off, so she would sort of help me. So that was our really our routine, and Cassius knew he always saw those people from three months basically.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

So it was a real family. Yeah, it was a village. And how had your expectations shifted once you had had Cassius compared to what they were before and how you would approach work?

SPEAKER_02 26:24

I didn't expect to suddenly be so ruthless about time, and I think because I was breastfeeding as well, and I had gone straight back to having to go to events because that's how you meet people and that's how you make work. I would time it to like Ricky would drop me to the station, I would give him a full feed, I'd leave enough in the fridge for like two hours or two, three hours, and because he was only three, four months old, and rush to the event, rush back, and had to just like time it all around these pumping feeds, or other or there was times when Ricky would come in. Actually, we had a uh my first event that was at a restaurant and in the daytime, and Ricky actually just sat and had lunch in the restaurant with him so I could go. Um, so a lot of sort of that happened, I think, and um it made me realise I was like, I'm in this room of people when I could be with my son, or like so this has to matter. This isn't just like a fun event that I'd go to, and that's my evening, and that's a nice at nice night out because you get some nice food and drinks, meet some nice people, have a goody bag, you know. This has to make I have to make a contact here.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

And so how do you make it matter?

SPEAKER_02 27:36

It made me so confident. I I mean I was pretty confident before, but now and I could go to a place of my own, fine, but now I prefer to go to a place of my own because dragging a plus one with me is just dead weight. I unless I've got you know, some plus ones know the drill. We're here, you entertain yourself, you crack on. I can go there on my own, meet the right people, in and out, know who get around the rooms, speak to people, we'll get my contacts and I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

I love this. This goes back to the like, let's just get shit done. Um, and but what I would love to know what are your top tips? Because I know a lot of people find networking going to an event on their own really daunting. Yeah, what are two, maybe even three tips that help you get what you want that you could share with people?

SPEAKER_02 28:27

I always and the best opener is just complimenting someone on their outfit is the easiest one, and it will I mean most I mean who doesn't like a compliment? And I mean, I'm going to a lot of fashion events, so there's always a lot of good uh outfits, so it's pretty easy, but um just commenting on them will open the line of communication and your next question is literally so what brings you to here today? You've literally just got a conversation, and if it's something relevant to you, then you crack on, and if it's not just get comfortable with going, have a lovely evening. I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go and um explore the rest of the room. That's what you're there for, and there's nothing wrong with saying that. Yeah, absolutely. Um, because I think people do then get stuck with John from tech, no offense, John from tech, you know, and that's not so relevant to you, and then you're all you have that awkward dance of oh, I'm just gonna go get another drink from the bar. Like, it's alright to go. It was great to meet you, have a nice night.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Yeah, absolutely. I I to I do totally agree. It's like everybody is there for the same reason, right? Don't you don't want to do that?

SPEAKER_02 29:31

And let them talk about themselves. People love talking about themselves.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

They do, they really, really do.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

What do you do? Tell me about your dude, tell and like sometimes I'll go, you know, what's the best thing that's happened to you this week? Wow, people are like, um, uh, actually, you know, it's an opener. Like, so I could those are my kind of main things is what you're wearing, what's the best thing that's happened to you this week, and just let them talk.

unknown 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Great. I love these are really, really, really good tips. Um, coming back to you know, being a founder, leading a team, do you think your leadership style has changed since becoming a mother?

SPEAKER_02 30:07

I think again it's more more I mean I did I like to get shit done before, now I really need to get shit done. I think now actually I think a lot of my friends and peers have said I'm you know, they've seen so much more of my progression this year, and I think it's because also in the back of your mind you want to to be successful for this little person because I want him to go to horse riding classes or whatever it is, you know, and whatever ridiculous thing he wants to try, uh, or I want him to try, really, probably this m the better way around. Um and to do that I need money, and that means my tea my business has to be successful, and that's really what it comes down to. That's my new drive. Yeah, and do you think you've got you tolerate different things or I tolerate people less, I have less, much less tolerance, and I'm very comfortable with saying no to things and having boundaries more than ever. Uh I think m I've I I turn off at six because I have to do bed and bath time. I'll pick it up afterwards. But if there's a call put in, I was like, you can speak to my team, I'm not available at that time. Yeah, good. And I'm really comfortable with I make a point, especially when I'm on set, of announcing I'm going to do the nursery pickup because you've got a team around, you don't need 4 30. We're way in the shoot now. I mean, obviously a massive shoot's different, I would make arrangements, but you know, an editorial or whatever it is, I I'm very comfortable saying that, and I think that's important to do those things because sneaking off or whatever is is what we're trying to all break down, you know. So I'm very comfortable with those announcements, I think. But um, yeah, I think I'm less tolerant for people's bullshit, which I wasn't before, but really now I'm like, this is I'm not saving lives, and I actually kept something alive for 15 months, so you even more like it adds a whole other layer to it, I think.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah, I've I totally, totally agree. Um, and I think that's a really interesting point in terms of announcing you're leaving set to do nursery pickup or you can't be available for a call. Do you think that's something that as an industry we need to be more vocal about? 100%, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

If it was a doctor's appointment, or oh, I did or I mean not that you have to tell anyone where you're going, but I think making that normalizing that and making people feel comfortable with that, or even just when it comes to normal scheduling, I can't do I I'm very if someone's like, Oh, we've got to do this on a Monday, I'm like, I don't have childcare on Mondays, so you we can have a call and there might be a baby in the background, or we'll try and make it to another day, or you'll just have to bear with me so I can find some support in the time store that you need. But being open about those things is really important, and an industry we definitely need to be doing that.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Yeah, and what do you think that openness has brought? Like, I wonder how clients or your team have responded to that.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

I think my team raised it, they also are super supportive because they know Monday, Tuesdays I don't have childcare, so I sort of fumble my way through Mondays and Tuesdays. You know, I I don't want to be that mum sat on my phone whilst my kids are there, and most of the time he's entertaining himself or doing something or feeding or whatever, or there is always someone else around, you know. Ricky equally is around on Mondays too, so we kind of divide and conquer. Um, but they're super supportive and understand that Monday and Tuesdays are a bit slower, you know, or I'm not gonna get back to them on reviewing things as quicker, as as quick as I normally would. And with clients, um I haven't, I mean, no one said anything. Yeah, they might think it, but it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

I think it's something that I'm really trying to bring in with clients actually, just to be like, nope, I can't respond to you because I am gonna be with my daughter and gonna be doing that. And I do think the ones that have kids are like, yes, we get this. And then that relationship, that bond goes even deeper. Yeah. And then if they don't have kids and they don't get it, you're like, that's fine, don't know if you're even I want to work with you anyway. Yeah you know, like so it it I think it really wheedles um people out like that. And I wonder when you, you know, as a exec producer with your company, obviously, you know, you do art buying, you put teens together. Do you look for parents more to commission like is that having affected your decisions?

SPEAKER_02 34:34

100%. I think subconsciously to maybe consciously, because you're right, you're drawn to them um because you know the juggle and the trauma that they've been through. Um and it's a sort of shared journey. And you also know that they are probably even more productive with their time than maybe people without children because they have to be, you know, to get everything done. Um so there is that sort of somewhat silent camaraderie that I do seek out, I think.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Yeah. And what are the similarities between being a mother and running a company?

SPEAKER_02 35:16

Oh my god, there's so many similarities actually. Um time management, people management, uh expecting the unexpected, um, every day is different. I'm just thinking of all the things Cassius, and that actually just all applies to running a business, to be honest. Um and the evolution and also the joy. Um both bring such joy.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah, absolutely. When something pulls off or growth happens or you see a development or something you never thought would happen.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yeah, and also both cause a huge amount of anxiety. So huge similarities.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Um, and it's not just your production company, Tiagi, that you run, you have also recently set up Kin Club. Yes. Can you tell me more about this?

SPEAKER_02 36:12

King Club was a gap that I just felt didn't that existed that I wanted to fill because I didn't find those spaces that existed so I made it, which is where I guess most entrepreneurs start. And I having gone back at sort of three months, I had my NCT friends, but a lot of them, you know, are still are on, you know, proper inaberto commons maternity leaves working for companies, and I sort of went to some of these baby mum mum mum things, um, because whilst I have friends who are also parents are in different stages, and you know, I moved to Twickenham, so when I'm I'm in a different area, so I figured what do I have to lose to meet other people similarly? Uh and I just felt they weren't my people. Um, you know, I would some would be like, Oh, should we go off and go go for a walk? And I'd be like, Well, I've got cool China now, you know, and and there's an area that sometimes a bit, oh, you're wet to work already. There's like a tinge of judgment sometimes, and I was like, Well, where are those the people like me? And also, I want to learn from those people. I want to know from someone who may be already juggling it that might have some like life hacks advice for me, or just general camaraderie in it, you know, and support because also being a sole founder is so lonely, and we're in our eighth year, and whilst I love it, and yes, you get the soul glory of the highs, but you also have no one to share the lows with. You know, I have an amazing senior team, and um are the support network for me internally is um Callie, our finance manager, and Joe, our HR um consultant, and who are incredible, and I could not have got to where Tiagi is without them in these eight years. But it's very different from someone really sharing that onus because I'm the one that's responsible for everyone's wages and for the bills, not them really, ultimately legally. Um so in hindsight, I would love to have a co-founder. Anyone out there who wants to work with me on King Club, please call me. Um, because you have that support. Um and I feel that's what I was searching for in uh the early times of pregnancy, uh sorry, um maternity. And as I said, like going to these events, I was like looking around the room, they were just so unconstructed and uncurated, and uh I was like, surely there's a better way to do this for people that just don't have the time and who know what they want. And I already had a studio space because we have Acton House, which is its own sort of separate entity as well, um, which is a studio event space in Clark and Well and is our office in general, but we also run events, etc. there. And I also was thinking from a business point of view, like also having a pipeline for business, you know, and business has changed from just your cold email sending things out, people want to do things in real life. How do you meet those people? How do you get them in the same room? How do you share the same goals? And exactly like you said, parenthood is a shared goal and or shared sort of thing, um trauma bond, yeah, trauma bond, yeah, rather than goal. And um I did some sort of piloty events, which was basically it's curated networking events for ambitious parents. It's people who are really at the top of their game, the seniors, their founders, who now find themselves whether they've just had a baby or they're sort of 10 years in and you know, all ages, it's still a juggle, whatever stage you're at, you know, and also just you as a person, you don't lose your ambition. If anything, my ambition tripled having him. But and now I'm like, well, I can take on the world if I can keep this guy alive, you know. Um, so and now I'm thinking of all the other businesses I want to open, all the other problems that I want to fix. And King Club was that, and I feel as we evolve more as a society uh of working parents that we need to make spaces for that. And King Club is very structured, and there is a panel and a conversation with extroverts that you know want to discuss something, and that bonds the room pretty quickly. Uh, and then we do a hot seat moment where people actually just introduce themselves really naturally, and they're already comfortable to do that because they've discussed this thing together, uh, whatever that is, and they introduce themselves, and half the work is already done. And you know, you'll see someone who is a photographer, and then you'll see someone introduce themselves that I run a photo agency, and you watch them go, oh, better talk to you. And we sort of have name badges that have also the ages of children. So before you can already go, Oh, you've got a six-month-old, you're in that stage too. How are you finding weaning? Or, oh, you've got a four-year-old, are you how are you finding schools and hunting for that? So already you just can have mini micro conversations before we even start something, you know, and before you know it, the whole room's talking, and if anything, they're asking how long do we have left in here? Can we carry can we stay on? Um, and that's it, really.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

And I you asked me to be on the panel of one of your kin club events earlier on in the year, and it was it was such an emotional experience, actually. We had tears that day, didn't we? We had tears, and ever since we've still had tears. Yeah, it's a very I get goosebumps talking and thinking about it. It was very, it was such a yes, it was a networking event, but it was so much more than that. It was like a place and a space where you could be safe, you could be open, you could talk about your struggles that you were having with parenthood and also with your business. And people just got it. It was really, really just an amazing, amazing, amazing event. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

And thank you for being on the panel as well so early on with no proof of concept for it all. Um, but I do think that's exactly what it was meant to be. It's just to have a comfortable space to ask the awkward things. I think all these panels that I see or go to are, you know, a lot of them are just very fluffy and on the surface. And I I think, as you now know me well enough, I don't do fluffy and on the surface. Um, so I just wanted to create that. I wanted to have a place where I could speak deeply about how much I don't know, my nipples hurt from breastfeeding, but also how I want to win this big bid, you know, and how do I do that? And are you still putting pe your baby to bed and then working till midnight too? Is that normal? Is that what everyone's doing? Because that's how I'm feeling in. Is there something else I should know about? Should I go to bed earlier and just wake up earlier before him? Is that a better system? Like, I want to share that with people, but equally, I also it had has brought out so many people in the industry that maybe I wouldn't have got an in with before because that shared thread and trauma is there, you know, and the same way guys I don't know, go on the golf course together. Yeah, I was going on pram walks with people who were like, you know, who's like the head of PR at Mac and now we're friends because she had a baby a month before me. And I DM'd her and went, You've had a baby. Uh I had a baby, and we have been trying to connect for a bit. Should we go for a pram walk?

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

And you know, and now we're sort of building things to work together, you know. Um she's not a Mac anymore. Shout out, Reaper. Um, and it's doing other things in the beauty space, but just moments like that, and that's what King Club is for. And I really want the the goal for me is to grow it, fund it, uh, get investors and grow it around the country because they're as you know, strong, ambitious parents all around the country. Uh and And have it be in society the same way you go to an NCT. Yeah. Before you have a bit Oh, have you been to your local king club? Because you're a working parent, you're gonna want to speak to other working parents. And that just become the norm.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think also in this day and age, getting out and meeting people, and as we said, like building relationships, that's it is so key and it's so important to build and how you build businesses. And it's also the only thing that AI can't take away from us. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

Um, and that's why I want Kin Club to exist. And you know, it's just it's just a more concentrated niche so you know what you're going into, you know, so you're not going into a room full of people knowing you're not going to get any value out of this. That someone's already thoughtfully looked at why and what you want and made that made sure that room works for you, you know. I will look through the guest list and then I'm like, oh, I know this I know this mum who should meet that mum. You need to know, and I'll call up people and go, You need to come to my event because you need to meet this person, you know, because of my own network. And I think people are only going to continue doing that if I pop it up around the country with ambassadors, etc. or whatever it looks like. Um, and that's really important to me.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Yeah, you're building uh essentially an ecosystem of parents and we're all kind of bonding. That can working together, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

You know, the mum club done it really well, and there's just a really broader model, whereas this is really specified at ambitious working parents.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah, I love that. And so Cassius is now how old? Nearly 15 months. Nearly 15 months, and as he grows up, like what do you hope he thinks of you and what you do within your professional life?

SPEAKER_02 45:53

I just hope he realises you can do whatever you want if you put your mind to it. And I am like that because of my parents. My mum opened her business when she was when I was three. So I didn't even realise uh that I was mentally taking notes the whole time, I guess. And watching her do that, and and my dad, you know, they did it sort of together, he was finance director there too. Um has always made me think, well, they just got up and gone with it, so I can get up and gone with it. And I think I want him to feel like they always they were never sort of traditional Indian parents, you know, who didn't want me to be an actress and wanted me to be a lawyer or a doctor or a dentist. They always made me feel like the world was my oyster and that they had worked so hard so I could feel like that. And I would want Cassius and any other children who come after him to feel that they we worked so hard for them to have opportunities so that they could also do whatever they want, but also to give back to the world, like you know, to do something good out of a privilege that you've been born into.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

And you touch upon future children, is that in the plan?

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Yeah, definitely. I mean, God, I would have a football team if I could. Um I think it's just great for I've always wanted a big, messy, loud, big family.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Do you see that in the like sooner, later?

SPEAKER_02 47:18

I think I originally saw it soon, as in I thought, like, let's just smash them out. That's what everyone says, you know, do it all when they're little, it's easier. You're in the trenches already. Um, but I felt so much more not even myself, I think like an a souped up version of myself post Cassius and this drive that I didn't even know I could have on top of the drive I already had that I don't want it to slow down just yet. And I need I have so many ideas and so many things I want to do, and um I can't afford to be throwing up and eating potato waffles for three months just yet. So not the immediate future, but until I sort of get those ducks in a row, get King Club working to a space where with funding, you know, it can work, it can run itself in a in a good place. I don't want to lose momentum with that, that's what I'm conscious of, and also momentum lose momentum of myself um just yet. So not immediate future, but it's definitely not too long.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Definitely in the plans. Where can we find out more about what you do? I want like Instagram handles, websites, tell me everything.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Uh my Instagram is notorious CST, a big uh big biggie fan. Shout out to any 90s hip hop lovers out there. Uh and that really has become a bit more of a culmination of my work and speaking things that I do and my shoots, etc., and just my world and the balance between sort of I guess having a business and and babies at the moment. Uh my our work insta is at T R G T I A G I and that will lead you through to the website, which is all of our work as well that um you can kind of find. And at Kin Club London is where you can find anything or Kin Club. So anyone that wants to come down to our next events, um please look out on the Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Well, thank you so much. Um, it's been a real joy, and yeah, anyone that is listening that is not familiar with Chantal or her work, I really, really encourage you to check out everything that she does. That was the powerhouse that is Chantal Shaquila Tiagi. She credits where she got to purely to relationships, and I have to agree it's something I'm really adamant about too. She traces her understanding of people right back to boarding school, and actually it's her understanding and her relationships which has led to Tiagi's success. She's carried serious responsibility since those early days running major campaigns, and as a sole founder, she's the one ultimately responsible for everyone's wages and the bills. So, when pregnancy brain arrived and she'd lose track of what she was saying halfway through a voice note, she found working really difficult, and her team was so patient with her. Motherhood has made her ruthless about time. Every event she leaves Cassius for has to matter. And actually, that's the thinking behind Kin Club, her curated networking event for ambitious parents. The room is built around what people actually need before they walk in. I sat on a panel at one of the early events and it was so much more than networking. Her goal is for Kin Club to become as normal for working parents as NCT is for new ones. And as she puts it, if anything, her ambition has tripled since having her son. You'll find links to Chantal's work and King Club in the show notes, and please follow the podcast and leave a quick review if this spoke to you. It makes a huge difference and helps more mothers and creatives find these conversations. You've been listening to Mothers of Creativity. I'm Sabrina Saar, and it's brought to you by BlinkPid Media.